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Fixing my 1987 505 STI


ofArc

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Hi all, I’d like to introduce myself and my new project, a 1987 505 5-speed STi.

 

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I’ve had two prior experiences with the Peugeot 505. A few months back at a local cars & coffee event (Katie’s, if anyone is from NoVA), a kind owner let me sit in his gray 505 and told me something to the effect of “it’s a neat car, but parts are hard to find and ownership is not for amateurs.”

 

The second experience was at Radwood Philadelphia, where two 505s were in attendance. I took a brief look, and thought that you’d have to be crazy to own a 30-year-old French car with no manufacturer support.

 

I must have lost my mind then, as when this 505 appeared on Craigslist I couldn’t resist its siren call. Following an amateurish pre-purchase inspection and test drive, I crossed my fingers and prepared to drive the car two hours home. Courtesy of a beautiful maroon V6 in a local junkyard, I picked up a few precautionary parts for the trip home.

 

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Expectations admittedly weren’t high, but the car made it home without any issues. I took it up to about 70 mph or so without issue, and it didn’t stutter in stop-and-go city traffic.

 

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Despite its encouraging debut performance, the car does have a few issues:

-Sunroof that won’t fully shut. I just fixed the cable before making this post, and I’ll write it up later.

-Incredibly dry rotted tires. See picture.

-Sloppy shifter. First gear is up-and-left neutral, second is down-and-left neutral, etc. I almost stalled the car several times starting in third instead of first.

-Both the heater and A/C don’t work. The A/C belt itself is missing from underhood, and I’m going to assume that’s for a reason. The heater issue might be electric, as the temp slider will only go halfway up before quitting.

-Broken gauge cluster. Only two needles actually move, the tachometer and the temp gauge. I purchased a new speedo cable and cluster off of the junkyard car, so hopefully that will fix it.

-The exhaust has quite a few holes in it. Above 2.5K revs, the car is loud. Admittedly, it is fun driving around and making a bunch of noise. I’ll fix it when it annoys me.

-It’s fortunate that the temp gauge works, as I’ve got a coolant leak. Coolant is dripping from the bottom of the water pump, so I’ll probably have to replace it.

-I’ve also got a slow brake fluid leak. The master cylinder looks wet, so likely end up replacing that too.

-Finally, the car has some cosmetic issues. The paint is faded, there’s some surface rust on the front left fender, the dash buttons are sticky, and the headlights are foggy. There’s also a few problems that I probably forgot.

 

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Not too bad, right?

 

I’ve fixed the sunroof issue, so the next problem I’ll tackle will be the water pump. Does anyone have info on the ZDJL water pump? I’ll probably get a new one off of eBay, unless there’s a way I can get it cheaper. Are there any specific steps I should take, or tools I should use? Any info at all would help, as I don’t want to go in taking things apart at random.

 

In the meantime, and this is going to sound dumb, where do I put new coolant in? I’m used to working on more modern cars. The car didn’t come with any manuals or other resources. The car is leaking green coolant. The big plastic tank holds blue fluid, which I’m guessing is for the wipers. I found a manual online that says to fill the radiator through the expansion tank, but the expansion tank is filled with red fluid. I checked under the radiator cap, and it’s filled with the green coolant. Do I just directly fill the radiator with coolant, or do I do something else?

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As you can probably tell, I’m going into Peugeot ownership somewhat blind. You’ve got to start somewhere though, and I’m eager to get my 505 back to it’s Gallic grand-touring glory.

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Congratulations on you're new ride!  

Definitely looks like a fixer upper - but they're a fun car even with the 2.2L NA motor and the 5sp can me a hoot.  My brother Arun lives in Charlottesville VA and has two 505 V6 5sp cars, and has done track events at VIR.

As for your question about topping up coolant:  Red circle is powersteering fluid (ATF), Green circle is the rad fluid level sensor, blue circle is the windshield washer reservoir.  There should be a hose off the rad - possibly the one that's visible that runs across the front - that goes to a coolant reservoir.  We never got the ZDJL (?) engine so I can't say for sure where it is - but there should be one somewhere.  The reservoir is usually where one fills the coolant.

Rabin

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Thanks for the help and the greetings! I'm not sure how I missed the expansion tank before, but I re-filled the system with coolant today. The low coolant light went out when I took the car for a drive, but I still need to check if the coolant in the tank is closer to the 'mini' or 'maxi' level. With the weather outside getting colder by the day and the car primarily being used for short trips, I'm not too concerned about the engine cooking itself.

I ordered a bunch of Peugeot technical manuals off of eBay today, which should help me with the water pump project. Until that's done, I'll top-off the coolant as needed.

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Welcome.

 

The container you painted/circled red is for PAS ATF (Power Assisted Steering). Please, do not pour coolant in there.

 

I couldn't see the coolant expansion tank in your engine bay (on picture you posted). Its usually mounted on left side. But not sure if that's the standard in ZDJL engine bay. There should be a small coolant hose that connects the coolant expansion tank to the radiator (around that radiator cover you circled green).

 

Ikenna351, Ling King - Monk.

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ofArc, Welcome to the forum

Beautiful introduction, and looks like someone has taken care for that car over the years. By the order of your fixes, your on the right track, as for the 505 they are simple to work on and extremely reliable, it's always the simplest thing.

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Oddly enough, the water pump has stopped leaking. I checked, and there's still coolant in both the radiator and the expansion tank. The temperature gauge holds steady during the short trips I take it on, so it seems like coolant is still circulating through the pump. I'm still going replace the pump to fix the leak that I saw earlier, but it's nice to have a car that fixes itself!

While I sort out the details of the pump, I've gotten some other work done. To commemorate my plates coming in, I repainted the rear fascia I got off of the junkyard 505. It definitely beats the old one.

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I also took the car to get a new set of tires installed. The old tires were three different brands and two different sizes. Driving it home, I was surprised at how much better the handling has become. Before, I was slightly disappointing in the steering. After reading so many vintage articles the beamed about the 505's handling, I was wondering what was different about mine. Now, I'm looking for excuses to take the car out for a drive.

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I also noticed that I need new rear brake pads, as right now, I don't seem to have any.

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What tire pressure is everyone running? Right now, I'm at 35 psi all around like most other modern cars. However, I looked later and saw that Peugeot recommended 29 psi front and 31 psi rear. I'm wondering if I should switch.

Also, the car came with the original remote entry fob. However, it doesn't have any batteries in it. I read online that it takes three batteries. I've tried several different types of watch batteries, but none fit. Does anyone know what kind of battery is required?

Thanks!

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16 hours ago, ofArc said:

Oddly enough, the water pump has stopped leaking. I checked, and there's still coolant in both the radiator and the expansion tank. The temperature gauge holds steady during the short trips I take it on, so it seems like coolant is still circulating through the pump. I'm still going replace the pump to fix the leak that I saw earlier, but it's nice to have a car that fixes itself!

While I sort out the details of the pump, I've gotten some other work done. To commemorate my plates coming in, I repainted the rear fascia I got off of the junkyard 505. It definitely beats the old one.

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I also took the car to get a new set of tires installed. The old tires were three different brands and two different sizes. Driving it home, I was surprised at how much better the handling has become. Before, I was slightly disappointing in the steering. After reading so many vintage articles the beamed about the 505's handling, I was wondering what was different about mine. Now, I'm looking for excuses to take the car out for a drive.

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I also noticed that I need new rear brake pads, as right now, I don't seem to have any.

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What tire pressure is everyone running? Right now, I'm at 35 psi all around like most other modern cars. However, I looked later and saw that Peugeot recommended 29 psi front and 31 psi rear. I'm wondering if I should switch.

Also, the car came with the original remote entry fob. However, it doesn't have any batteries in it. I read online that it takes three batteries. I've tried several different types of watch batteries, but none fit. Does anyone know what kind of battery is required?

Thanks!

I leave mine minimum of 35 psi and maximum 40 psi. I don't let them go below 35 psi. I know its not factory psi, but I am ok with that, considering nature of Nigerian roads. My tyres size is factory though (195/60 R15).

 

Ikenna351, Lion King - Monk.

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What tires did you get?  I find tire construction, speed rating, and driving style play into pressures.  

If the tire is performance oriented with stiffer sidewalls I run close to factory settings, but if they're cheaper tires with soft sidewall I run 40+ as I'm all about handling my driving style.

I'd also recommend checking the caliper as the disk is not showing a polished / clean brake surface - or were they quite rusty and that is the surface? 

Rabin

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I put on a set of BFG Advantage T/A Sports, a pretty middle-of-the-road tire. They're rated to go 130 mph/209 kph, which I don't intend on testing. For a car that made 120 hp from the factory 31 years ago, they should be more than enough. Thank you for the pressure advice everyone, I'll keep them at 35 psi for now.

Good call on checking out the caliper! I took a sharpie and scribbled on the rotor before I went for a short drive. It was gone when I came back, so the caliper is clasping the rotor. The car had sat for a while before I bought it, and I haven't been driving it too much, so I think it's just residual rust.

Here's a picture of the fob. It might be the later Kiekert kind, but I don't see any markings either inside or outside the casing.

 

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My 91 405 Mi16x4 has the same remote, it has the name NEIMAN on the cap, you can see it in the picture, it uses Rl44 standard size batteries 3 pieces and you can see the orientation of them in the pictures, there is not much that can go wrong with them, check if the sensor is plugged in, is located in the car next to the dome light, i've unplugged it on my car because i have a more modern alarm installed and the IR system is much easier to hack with a Tv remote. Hope this helps you.

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Great tire choice!  So hard to find decent 15" tires now, and those are just fine.  (I like mine with some sporting intentions rather than a touring or commuter tire).

Brakes: Bit of work, but I'd recommend getting the rotors turned before putting new pads on.  At the very least I'd use a pad sander with some 80 grit metal sand paper to knock the rust down.

Rabin

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Nowadays I scan Craigslist for 15 inch used Michelin’s.  More than once I have been delighted.

Sometimes they are attached to alloy wheels from something that can be sold to offset.

The local vocational high school  near me has an auto tech program  that offers mounting and balancing for a whopping $3 a pop.

i just take in loose wheels, no muss or fuss.

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I did spend some time on Craigslist, but none of the listings were the right size. Bill, I'll have to see if there's any vocational programs like that near me. Something like that may be helpful in the future if I ever decide to get winter tires.

Sanding the rust off the rotors is a good idea. Since the rotors themselves have a decent bit of life left, I'll hit them with a coat of paint when I have them off. That should keep rust off the rotor hat, and make the whole thing a little more presentable.

Talking about brakes, I've tracked down the source of my brake fluid leak. The seal between the fluid reservoir and the master cylinder isn't water (fluid?) tight, causing a slow trickle. I'm not sure if it's an issue with the rubber washer/o-ring, or if it's a master cylinder problem. I could hit the ring with a coat of RTV and see what happens, but we'll save the homebrew fixes for things that won't kill me if they fail!

Looks like the Kiekert fobs take 2x CR1/3N batteries. With the batteries in, I can see the fob working, but the car doesn't pick up the signal. A little disappointing, but not too big of an issue. I'll fix it when I have nothing better to correct. So it may be a while...

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I also got a set of new shifter bushings off of eBay. They're 3D printed from some combination of wonderplastic, so they shouldn't fall out like (I think) the old ones did. I've still got to get underneath the car to check out the actual situation with the shift rods, but the bushings were cheap enough that I figured I may as well hope for the best. If anyone else is looking for better bushings, they were sold by seller pyramidpeugeot. I don't know if there's any left, but I'd imagine more will eventually be made. I can't speak to their quality as they're not in the car yet, but they've got a leg up on the old ones as they exist while the current ones, well, don't.

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I've ordered the new water pump, too. Since the current one seems to be working for the time being, I may delay that project until things warm up a bit outside. I'll be learning soon if my heater works or not...

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On the tires, it takes time, so I check back every week or so.  There is a little bit of wiggle room on sizes, and you nave to be careful about mixing sizes. Same size on axles, especially in the rear, as the spider gears are not happy if you don't.  All four the same is optimal. You can check the dates on the tires. The last four digits of the serial number tell you that.  I keep that under seven years or so.  I once found a set of MXV4's that came mounted on Toyota wheels.  I sold the wheels separately essentially making the tires free.  The original owner had bought some fancy wheels.

The fluid leak sure sounds like the master cylinder.  I lean toward those that are made in Italy, as it is not a place to try and save a few bucks.  Caution when replacing is in order to try and not bend the lines, as the fine thread fittings bolting back up can be a witch with B if you don't. We have a great bleeding technique that I learned a while back from the boys here.

They call the Keikert a PLIP.  The OEM ones have a limited range.  Ebay has newer ones that connect into the existing wires, and have a better range.  I think that they are about 20 bucks or so, but you have to know where to look.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I was driving the other day when the feel of gearshift went from loose to nonexistent. At the next stop light, I realized the transmission was stuck in third, despite the position of gear lever. I limped the car a few miles home in third, and went underneath to source the problem.

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As I guessed, the shift rod came loose from its mount. The bushings on both ends of the rod are completely gone. I can find two or three other examples of 505s getting stuck in third online. Looks like when the transmission is in third gear, the rod reaches its highest diagonal angle, making it likely to fall out.

I ordered a new old stock rod online, and it'll be here in a few days. Of all the things that could cripple my car, I can't complain about a tiny, easily-accessible rod.

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While I was replacing the rod yesterday, I noticed some oil residue around the transmission drain plug. I'm concerned about the oil level being low inside the housing, so I'm going to change it out with some new 10w/40. Does anybody know of a drain plug gasket that fits? Autozone says that Needa 653336 would fit, but it just seems like a universal set of gaskets.

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Just use a copper crush washer.  It likely already has one, and you can reuse them if you anneal them with a torch/heat.

I've had great luck using Redline 75w90NS in my transmissions.

Rabin

 

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  • 1 month later...

Thanks for the oil tip, that's what I went with and it shifts like a dream now. When I drained the old oil, only about 1/3 of what there should have been came out. Certainly explained the clunky shifting.

While I was underneath the car, I noticed several different colors of leaks. Most concerning was the amount of oil that was present. The car wasn't low on oil when I checked the dipstick, but it was concerning nonetheless.

Luckily, a friend of mine knew of an old Peugeot dealer mechanic that works at a Volvo/Saab shop near me. I took the car in for an inspection, and to quote the mechanic, "it's not great, but you could have bought worse."

There's a whole bunch of smaller issues that I can worry about later, but the main concerns boil down to three areas: the braking system, the water pump, and the engine seals. At least the front crank seal needs replacement, as the timing belt is covered in oil. In the rear, either the rear main seal or the head gasket is bad. There's no coolant in the oil that I can tell, but there's no way to be sure. The water pump is bad, but that's old news by now.

Also, the driver's tie rod is bent from what looks like a failed towing attempt. Both the clutch master and slave cylinders are leaky, but I'll get there later.

There's not much sense in having a car that you can't stop, so my current concern is the brake system. The biggest problems are the master cylinder and the rear calipers. I've got a new cylinder on the way, and it should be easy enough to replace the old one. The bigger pain are the rear calipers. Both of them are seized, necessitating new pads, rotors, and a dual caliper replacement/rebuild. I can find rear caliper seal sets, but I'm unable to source either new rear pistons or complete caliper assemblies. Depending how bad the piston is corroded, this could be an issue. I'll keep looking, and hopefully something will pop up. I'll shoot an email to some of the parts suppliers listed on the forum, too.

Replacing the rotors also looks to be a pain, considering I'll have to take out the complete hub assembly to get them off. It's certainly doable though, so once parts arrive and the weather warms up I'll begin.

At the very least, the transmission doesn't leak oil any more, so that's cool.

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In the mean time, it's back under the car cover for some hibernation. Certainly a long post with not much in terms of progress, but that's how all projects start. If anybody knows any tips or tricks, I'd be more than happy to hear them.

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Rear rotors seem like a lot of work but aren't too bad - the Hub assembly is held on with 4x 8mm Allen bolts that are accessible through the big hole in the wheel bolt flange, just rotate the flange around until you get all 4 out.  Use a good allen socket, and make sure it's full seated in the head of the bolt before undoing it.

Rear calipers:  Are you sure they're seized?  You won't really know their condition until you remove them, but just remember the piston needs to be rotated before it will slide back to change the pads.  Never force the piston back.

Glad the transmission oil tip worked out - My 505 STI 5sp was THE best shifting car I've ever driven after using the Redline NS gear oil in it.

Rabin

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  • 1 month later...

The sun is coming out and parts are coming in! I'm waiting on a few more things to arrive, and then I'll be able to start work on the brakes. I'm holding off on finding new rear calipers for now, I want to see if simply adjusting the handbrake fixes the problem first.

I was underneath the hood today, and noticed four empty bolt holes on the side of the engine head (pictured). The exhaust manifold is bolted directly below. Does anybody know what, if anything, is supposed to be attached here? Thanks

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