SSB Posted May 7, 2016 Report Share Posted May 7, 2016 Well, got a surprise today. Came out of a corner in second gear and bang, lost forward motion. Trans is working, drive shaft is turning and axles are ok. Thought I felt a vibration before the event. Speedo is reading and there's a bit of a noise near the diff. Anybody got pictures of what's connecting the drive shaft to the diff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDT Posted May 7, 2016 Report Share Posted May 7, 2016 Splines, male on the diff and female on the drive shaft. Check the online Peugeot parts catalog: http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com/classic/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted May 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 Struggling to read French but 2801.63 appears to be the N9TE shaft. Would the splines inside the back end of the shaft broke away? I don't drag race it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDT Posted May 8, 2016 Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 Maybe it's the weld between the splined hub and the shaft itself or maybe something inside the diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted May 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 I'd like to believe the issue is the drive shaft as the sound it makes with the clutch out is fairly light. That said, I have another diff but not a drive shaft. The race car (Red) never broke and has had a much harder life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted May 8, 2016 Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 How did you determine if driveshaft is turning? From your description it has to be drive shaft or diff - but it could also be clutch... I'd suspect clutch over driveshaft or diff without more info... Had the exact thing happen in a Scirroco - thought for sure it was transmission. Resealed a replacement, but on install the clutch disk was toast - center had broken out of it. Replaced the close ratio with the regular 020 while I was at it along with the new clutch. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted May 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 The noise it makes when in gear, engine running is near or at the dif and the speedo is indicating is where my diagnosis lead me to drive shaft/diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted May 8, 2016 Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 What kind of noise is it making? Could be stripped splines, broken shaft, or something broken in diff. Hard to guess without more info on type of sound - but either way the diff has to come out to address any of the guesses. Have never heard of this kind of failure, but does Deuce still have the open diff? Good opportunity to upgrade to a lsd while you're at it. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted May 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 Actually. Deuce has Red's original LSD (We bought a new diff for the 1989 season). I disabled the ABS and later replaced the ABS altogether. So that diff has 60K race miles on it plus the 70k while installed in Deuce. Noise: It's a light sound, ticking with no vibrations in the car. Gear and engine speed related (faster in 5th and slower in 1st). For such as relatively easy life Deuce has had compared to Red, it's had a lot more failures. This is the first time it's stranded me, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted May 8, 2016 Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 I would guess sheared drive shaft or some sort of sheared break in the diff... Stripped splines would be much louder, same with ring and pinion issues. Light ticking sound would have to be a fairly clean break. Keep is posted on what the failure is when you find it. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted May 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 am still stunned. 1) It broke so nicely 2) That it broke at all Oh well, stick the open diff back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Dang Victor - I've never seen that kind of break ever. Too bad about going to an open diff - If you want to source an LSD I'm sure myself or Hugh can help out. I've always wondered what a 4.11 LSD out of an XN6 5sp sedan would do to perk up a Turbo. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted May 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 It was so gentle about it. No bang/crunch/snap/crackle or pop. Rolled in gear without any noise at all. I'm going to want a spare as Red's diff has about 140k on it but I never thought Deuce would be the one that needed it first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDT Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Probably fatigue fracture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted May 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Doesn't look like it twisted during failure (no spiralling) - Did mechanic mention if torque tube was loose or not? Rare / odd failure so I'm curious what was the root cause was - or maybe it was a manufacturing flaw that fatigued over time until it was weak enough to break. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted May 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 I felt it go off center (in retrospect ) but that was only a mile before it broke. Every thing was tight and in order except the oil had been leaking apparently for some time that I had not noticed. There are two different surfaces there. One is maybe 15% of the surface that is rough and the rest is smooth. I'm guessing the 15% area is the originator of the final failure. Just guessing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 It's never a good sign when parts like that brake on stock power levels especially at 150 RWHP,luckily it's not a common failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDT Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 The rough part is what was left and finally broke: The part (at least in this zone) can handle much more than 150hp, that's why the rough surface is only 15% in this case. Threads are a common weak point, that's why airplanes have UNJF threads: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted May 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Good info. Using said info would suggest the upper and lower sections (11 o'clock and 5 o'clock) were the last to go. That said there is a little oxidation in the upper right quadrant. As so the fatigue is not an old one from when it was the race cars diff some 30 years ago. Surprising to me as I don't do burn-outs, jump berms, drift or any other hooliganism's with that car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Although... The car did do a bunch of jumps through the glass window over the bed - so maybe a tiny fracture started way back when? It's pretty well protected in that tube, and the splines looked OK from the picture you posted - so the only thing left are the jumps. Maybe. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted May 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Well in the commercial, as I recall, the rear tires are not spinning much faster than the fronts. So the concussion of landing wouldn't shock the drivetrain anymore than my turn 7 Road Atlanta qualifying experiment where I left my foot down, left foot broke, turned off the key then turned it back on as I exited. Was a suggestion from a friend who was on Paul Newmans team. Well I'm here to tell you that was the single largest shock that drivetrain ever got. If it was going to break, it should have done it then but that is one reason I bought another diff for it anyway. Reds_Commercial.avi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 I was thinking more along the lines of the jumps that caused your castor to be out of whack maybe tweaked the driveline at the same time somehow... Now I have to ask just exactly was the reaction of the car when you turned the key back on? I'm thinking unburned fuel - was it an 'explosive' exit? Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted May 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Axle Tramp and two clouds of tire smoke. Leaving the throttle open let the turbo stay at full speed so no fuel was being added as the ignition was off but let's just say there was no turbo lag when I turned it back on. All the way down the back straight I kept saying "Sorry Red" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goce Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I've seen this failure on a fiat axle the crack originated from the grave for securing the nut, best guess impurity in the metal or long term vibration and metal fantage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.