Bean Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Trying to come up to speed in the diesel world, and wanted to see what if anything others have done with their diesels to get better performance and efficiency. I've been mining VW and MB diesel forums for info and have gathered what I think is the hot set up for injectors. Any feedback would be appreciated. Looks like the 87+ XD3T's use the DN0SD265 spec injector, so it makes sense that I would do the same. Injector body itself looks to be the same no matter what car it's from - but the nozzle is what differentiates them. Spray pattern is critical - so you should ensure the injectors have the proper nozzles. Nozzle, injector 505D XD3T 87-> Bosch 0434250128 -> Monark 039 305 128 Nozzle, injector 505D XD3T 85&86 -> Bosch 0434250109 -> Monark 039 305 109 Bosch moved production to India and it's quite apparent that quality has suffered and no one recommends them at all. Monark nozzles are the ones to use as they are still made in Germany. https://mercedessource.com/ appears to be one of the only sources for the Monark nozzles, but they've just sold out... Next shipment won't be until June. Hot set up is to use the Monark 039 305 128 nozzles (SD 265 spec) which is also common to the MB, and to set the injector pop pressure to 160 bar. Pressures will settle one the assembled injectors break in - which should bring pop to ~155 bar. The higher pop pressures are said to improve atomization and make for smoother running and less smoke on start up. Arun is hopefully going to be sending me an injector tester from the dealer stock we purchased, and I will be rebuilding my spare set of injectors to this recipe to see how it works. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunktionFET Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Subscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted April 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Dilemma: Monark nozzles are sold out - looks like June is the time frame. They sell for $25/nozzle. Madhu (Parts Network) says he can get me old stock Bosch nozzles for $40/nozzle that are German/French made. Tough call on which to go with. Gut says to go with the Bosch ones. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted June 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Since this post got referenced I should update it. Nozzles Madhu could get were not made in Germany and therefore not really recommended. Monark's are the way to go, but Mercedes Source only sells them in sets of 5 or 6 (The ones needed for the XD3T anyway). If three of us split two sets of 6, we each get a set of new nozzles. Or just buy 5 and have one spare. I need a set for my AAZ injectors, so post up if you want to be part of the idea to split two sets. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 But are the Monark 039 305 109 available? I don't see them listed anywhere. can I use the 039 305 128s in my 1985 and if so what's the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted June 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 I did my searching based on the SD165 cross reference and that's what the 128's are. The 109 is what Monark listed in it's online reference specific for our Peugeot, but since the injectors have the SD265 spec I will be getting the 128's. https://mercedessource.com/node/4952 The newer spec Bosch injectors had a separate path that would do a pre-injection of diesel into the chamber, but these fine passages would plug up. Monark did away with this second passage in the newer injectors. They are supposed to flow more diesel in the newer Mercedes cars however as the newer cars ran higher boost. As mentioned above, hot set up is the 128's, with pressure set to 160 bar as they usually settle to 155 BAR after break in. All that is theoretical on the 505 until I do it on my car and prove it works, but it is the hot set up on VW's and MB's that use similar designs - more so the VW's as they even use the same IP. In my case I'm going one further with AAZ 2 stage VW injectors rebuilt with the Monark nozzles, and I'm making arrangements to have the IP flowed with the injectors so that I can hopefully get proper timing advice for this hybrid set up. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunktionFET Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 Here's the story on the sd265s. Apparently the sd314s are a further evolution of the sd265, and one Mercedes forum indicates they are capable of flowing more fuel. I'm still intrigued by the sd240s, as they have the special pintle with the pilot injection. Every source I've read says they idle quiet and smooth, though they easily clog if the fuel is dirty or if you try to use WVO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted June 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 I went with the Monark equivalent's that do not have that pilot injections set up, but I did go ahead with the AAZ conversion to make use of the more aggressive cam profile and the 2 stage injector which should be the most advanced version of the IDI system before they started into the TDI engines... I've got the pump - still have to send out the AAZ injectors with the new nozzles out to get rebuilt, and once that's done I'll need to make time for some test and tuning. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSoG Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 what changed in the 87+ xd3t that requires a different spray pattern, or do the 265 just spray more fuel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 The next evolution was the XD3TE and there were no changes to the long block as far as I know, just different intake and exhaust manifolds for the intercooler, and some injection pump and injector changes over the XD3T. The road to hell is paved with good intentions - that said I honestly hope to finally make some progress with my TD's this summer. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSoG Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 None of that should change spray pattern though, unless the xd3te pump has two stage injection, or something odd. I think i might have to buy a pop tester and do some experiments... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted March 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Correct. I had mine modded into an AAZ 2-stage injection pump, and I'm going to run AAZ injectors with Peugeot spec nozzles. I could probably leave the AAZ nozzles as is, but was wanting to remove as many unknowns as possible in case it doesn't run as expected. Pretty robust systems - but I'm hoping in increase output by 50% so I want to make sure everything is well thought out. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSoG Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 I always thought the only improvement from the 1.6 to the aaz was head flow, and the dual stage injectors were more to reduce emissions and noise than improve performance. I know a few guys who swapped aaz heads onto their 1.6 but most avoided the dual stage injectors, although that might have been because they couldnt pop test them on a bottle jack. I never looked into it that hard since I wasnt looking for that. It's been more than a couple years but I have been in giles shop a few times buying engines from one of his former employees. Nice place. Impressive equipment. Will send my pump to him when i get that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted March 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 I'm not a VW diesel guy at all - just looked at mining the forum for performance info I could apply to the Peugeot's. Goal for my build was to make the IDI as refined as possible, and when I researched it the 2 stage injector made a lot of sense. If done right they should reduce NVH, and since Giles can rebuild them he can still set pop pressures for increased power. Giles figured with the 2.5L I should be able to get 150HP no problem. I was hoping to get my AAZ mods dyno'd before install, but I'll likely just install and try to tune myself so that I learn how to get it dialed in. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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