Bean Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 My 89' 505 turbo had the most annoying creak when the clutch pedal was depressed. Initially I thought the pivot just needed to be lubricated, but this weekend I disassembled it to find the rod was almost half worn through: (Barely see it at the end - length is 8 7/8") I spent a long time trying to come up with the right solution, but any spherical or roller type bearing was going to be way too big to do nicely and I'd need more specialized tools. In the end I think I found an excellent solution. I won't bother with all the trial and error stuff - but get down to the final iteration: I filed the hole bigger effectively moving the pivot location as well as enlarging the hole. I then drilled it with a 25/32" bit and tapped it with a 1/2" 20NF tap. I found some 1/4" ID x 1/2" OD x 1" sintered bronze bushings that were oil impregnated, and I used the matching die to cut the same 1/2" 20NF thread into it. I then cut it to measure and cleaned up the edge on the grinder. I debated on how to repair the existing rod, but then decided to just remake the rod out of 1/4" round bar stock. No need to mess with the bushing then, and it's only 1/32" thinner than stock. Bent it up to match in my vise, cut to length with a hack saw, and then put a bullet shape on the end with the grinder. I didn't want to mess with trying to drill a hole for the cotter pin, so instead I cut a groove into it and used an external spring clip. Turned out awesome. The funny shaped bolt in the last hole is there for the spring. The hole the spring was in was starting to wear, so I used an old mountain bike part to take the spring end and it rotates with the spring end for a better connection with minimal wear. I'd guess that I've doubled the surface contact of the stock hole (minimum), and with the lubricated bushing it should be trouble free pretty much forever. If not - the bushing is easily duplicated and is an easily replaceable item if it ever does wear out. Once installed - the factory rod length was perfect for the new solution, so there was no adjustment to the length needed at all. Clutch actuation feels excellent and is absolutely silent. Likely way more work than most would ever want to spend on a clutch pivot, but this is the stuff that makes me happy when I figure out a nice solution. Rabin This post has been promoted to an article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Rabin, The fix seems relatively simple yet effective. I'll relay this info to Roger. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Very clever. That was August's car? How many miles are on it now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Thanks Vic! Yup - August's old car. The car has about 311xxx kms on it now. Car is still REALLY tight, both suspension and steering feel are fantastic. I'm still making progress on it's full restoration, and I'm hoping I can park it this winter for it's extensive mechanical mods. Total repaint I'm hoping to do next year. Pivot mod: Clutch feel has really improved and is way more linear in feel. It used to feel heavy near the top and get easier the farther it went down - now it feels just as easy up top as it does at the bottom. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 It used to feel heavy near the top and get easier the farther it went down - now it feels just as easy up top as it does at the bottom. this is because the pivot geometry would change throughout the range of pedal actuation as the rod flopped around in the worn, enlarged hole, yes? also, dumb question -- how did you screw in the bushing into the newly enlarged (and threaded) hole? pliers? nice mod, nice writeup. andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 this is because the pivot geometry would change throughout the range of pedal actuation as the rod flopped around in the worn, enlarged hole, yes? also, dumb question -- how did you screw in the bushing into the newly enlarged (and threaded) hole? pliers? nice mod, nice writeup. andré Thanks Andre! The hole in the pedal was only slightly oblong, but the grooves in the rod were almost halfway through. The original feel I think was a combination of overcoming the static friction of the metal on metal contact, and of the leverage geometry that's inherent in the design. With this new oil impregnated bushing - this static friction is noticeably less and it's smoother with consistent effort to push now. Actual force required isn't much different as it's still a low effort event to begin with, but the FEEL is very much improved. Bushing really only needed to be threaded in, so it was just a slight tweak with some pliers to make it snug. Since the bushing was oily, using loctite was useless. No need for it - it can't go anywhere. Hard part was hand filing the hole so that when I drilled the hole out to size the hole still went through both pieces of steel. If you drill the hole as is, the hole will only fully be in one piece of metal. By filing it into the pedal more - it ensured the bushing engages both layers of steel fully. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 When I drove it I don't recall much of a difference between my cars and his (hereinafter referred to as yours) regarding the clutch pedal anyway. Just mild curiosity as that would suggest that the sensation (or wear) accelerated at some point. Which would mean I might have to do this to Red someday even though it now feels fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 When I drove it I don't recall much of a difference between my cars and his (hereinafter referred to as yours) regarding the clutch pedal anyway. Just mild curiosity as that would suggest that the sensation (or wear) accelerated at some point. Which would mean I might have to do this to Red someday even though it now feels fine. Actually - clutch always felt good. I was trying to silence an annoying creaking sound when it was pushed. Every time I pushed it, it sounded like opening a creaking door. Very annoying and it gave a poor impression to any passengers that were in the car. We took my car for lunch at work and one of my co-workers asked what that sound was... It was an annoyance to reply my pedal creaks! So this fix was just another case of what started as something quick and easy (I hoped a shot of oil or a dab of grease was needed), to a full on 8+ hour project of noodling around and walking around Princess Auto (~ Harbor Freight) looking for possible solutions. Initially I was wanting to replace it with a rod end and threaded rod, but there's no space for that to work. So the search was on. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 My second 505 (hence Deuce) cracked one driving light. As I went to replace the one I noted that the other had to be replaced as well otherwise it wouldn't look perfect. Pride is a terrible thing to waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Pride indeed! I'm enormously proud of my cars, so when things don't work, or it has some sort of failure it bugs me. Oh - when I was finished with the clutch pedal the gas pedal felt notchy. Grabbed my handy cable luber for my motorbike, flushed the cable with brake clean, then compressed air, then a shot of spray grease. (sprays very thin and sets up thicker quite quickly) Pedal feel is awesome now - very smooth. Perceived quality is all about the little details... Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 One would reasonably think this thread ended with that last reply. But Nay Nay I say. I am happy to hear someone reply that perfection is the only option. Red carries every reminder of every glove that cut him till he cried out in his anger and his shame "I am leaving, I am leaving, but the fighter still remains." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdKjEHfHINQ Deuce on the other hand represents what the 1987 505 Turbo S was when it was sold as a new car. I have addressed things that most others would try to fix with spit and glue with absolute finality. Currently I need to address an issue with the injectors. Will I replace the one that is failing or do all of them regardless of the cost. You my friend are probably one of the very few that understand that there are few options to that question. It has to be perfect, nothing less. Even if others don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Red carries every reminder of every glove that cut him till he cried out in his anger and his shame "I am leaving, I am leaving, but the fighter still remains." you should never anthropomorphize your cars....they hate it when you do that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSB Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Had to look that up and it was still funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metako Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 just found this thread. That's a great solution Rabin! I've been thinking about a possible fix ever since I broke my first one a couple of years ago, and I'm getting the squeeky noise again. Only way I found to oil it is to cover my fingers in oil and then rub them over the rod end. But the squeek always comes back in a few months. Was thinking about teflon coating the rod but I'll definitely give this a go. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted May 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 I hope it works as well for you as it did for me Metako... It's still every bit as slick now as it was that first day - so it's held up just as I thought it would. Best part is that even if it didn't hold up as well as first thought, it's an easily replaceable bushing should I need to replace it later. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted May 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 Off-Topic - Just saw your signature with the SR20DET running the GT2871 and I was hoping you might elaborate on the power delivery of the turbo... Curious in particular in how it builds boost - IE how early and if it pulls to redline nice. Thanks! Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metako Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 Actually, I haven't yet got the turbo making boost as it should. Its very slow to boost and only makes about 10 psi and thats only when I'm going up a hill. I'm chasing a major boost leak and have the actuator disconnected so it's out of the equation. It may even be a cracked exhaust housing although I had a good look at it before I installed it. I've pressure tested the piping with an air tank and fixed a couple of leaks but when I test the turbo/exh manifold in isolation it wont hold pressure. I haven't found the source of the leak yet and need to jack the car up and have a look at the underside of the turbo while it's under pressure. I've got a few days off work now so I'll try to do it soon. Just spent many hours swapping the old ceramic fuse box over for a later GTi fuse box and soldering up 40 wires! I've been melting plugs and circuit boards and loosing power throught the ceramic fuses and broken wires ever since I got the car on the road so it was a must do situation. The GT2871 should start making good boost at 2500rpm and be have full boost from 4000 through to 6500 rpm and give around 240 rwkw on a dyno dynamics dyno, so it'll be alot of fun when I get it working. (I wasn't expecting this but it actually makes the engine sound better too-more 'growly' and hard core ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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