HELP!! 505 V6 EMITS BLACK SMOKES FROM THE EXHAUST PIPE

[Ikenna]

But Nick, fuel is diluting oil in the sump, which i believe is caused by leaky Injecors. Dont you think that could be the major causes of the excessive fuel (black smoke) & fuel in the sump & should be the first to be replaced?

Ikenna.

[nick@nite]

But Nick, fuel is diluting oil in the sump, which i believe is caused by leaky Injecors. Dont you think that could be the major causes of the excessive fuel (black smoke) & fuel in the sump & should be the first to be replaced?

Ikenna.

The MAF controls how much fuel to send, so if you know it's bad you won't see great results until a good MAF and a differnet set of injectors

Change oil sooner than later if getting wash down

[Ikenna]

This afternoon, a thought just came to me while at work. "If the injectors are truely leaking, pulling them out and checking their spray pattern could tell if they are leaking or not", I thought.

I went to the car, opened the bonnet and pulled out the fuel rail, with injectors still attached. I put injectors inside transparent plastic bottles and had a colleague clanked the engine several times, while observing. This time, the spray was too much, compared to what i saw months ago i checked the spray pattern, before the MAF was damaged. It seemed like mist, but it was too much for just starting the engine, I guess. I asked him to stop the clanking. I waited for few minutes, to see if any of the injectors would leak fuel from the nozzles, since it still had pressure. None was dropping/leaking fuel from the nozzles and the fuel rails (where the injectors were attached to the rails). This, I guess, has eliminated leaky injectors. I put back the injectors into the intake manifold.

I dont know. Dont blame me for a lot of guess work am doing. But it appears to be the only way of fixing the excessive fuel & diluting of oil in the sump by fuel issues. If injectors are not leaking fuel after the engine stop running, then the problem seems to be that the injectors are injecting excess fuel that couldnt get burnt and found their way into the sump via cylinders. What does that tell us? MAF, Injection ECU or the wiring connection btw the MAF and ECU, could be the culprit(s).

Yes, its a known fact that the MAF is already dead. But before it died, I once tried witth 3 MAFs (the same part no. to see if any difference/change. I didnt see any. Though, then, it wasnt as bad as it is now. Unless the 3 MAFs were not good as well? At least, I checked and confirmed that the positive feed(wire) to the MAF does have power once the ignition is on. How to check if other wires from MAF to ECU are intack is a serious problem which i dnt know how to go about. If the Injection ECU is the culprit, I wouldnt know. Someone here in Nigeria was saying his Toyota Camry onetime was emitting blacksmoke from the exhaust, which made the previous owner to sell the car to him. He changed/replaced the ECU and the problem was gone. Now, does Bosch ECU give the same symptom if faulty, I do not know. Reason why am relunctant going into fixing this car. So much money to be spent in trying to fix it.

I have googled, checked every possible sites and all I came up with that causes hard start when engine warms is faulty Igntion/Amplifier module. I wouldnt know if this is applicable to the Bosch module use by 505. So if the Injectors are not leaking, what then would cause hard start when the engine warms? Unless, the excess unburnt fuel injected would cause that. The whole thing is weird, really weird!

Well, am not ruling out the Injectors. But I wouldnt want to waste my fortune to replace the injectors, only not to see any difference. Besides, there are no new injectors of that type in the market. So it would be better that I find where i can get mine thoroughly serviced. Because mine might even be better than the used ones i intend to buy. At least, they are not leaking. Only their spray pattern is the problem. Wouldnt thorough cleaning fix that?

Anyway, I will start with replacing the MAF. And then see how it goes from there.

Btw, I have made the arrangement to purchase the V6 instrument cluster. It will arrive before Saturday. At least, with the ignition/injection self diagnostic indicator/bulb in the cluster, it will go a long way to help me in diagnosing the igntion and Injection issues with the car. Or what do you think?

Ikenna.

[Bean]

I'll see if I can find anything in the manual about testing the MAF. Easiest is to test with a known good one, but with all the wiring butchery it's also very likely that the wiring to the ECU is at fault.

Can you post the numbers off the MAF, and the ECU's? (ECU's should be under the passenger foot rest / carpetted panel)

It could very well be the MAF or the ECU. Since you've confirmed the injectors aren't leaking, and that the bottles misted so much you couldn't see - that should be good enough. I'd guess they're just getting the wrong signal and they're injecting too much fuel.

As for the instument cluster - I'm skeptical this will make a difference as the wiring it plugs into is likely all 4cylinder stuff. If it was a proper conversion, all the wiring and the entire dash would have been transferred from a donor car. It still *might* work - but it's pretty likely it won't.

Rabin

[Ikenna]

Thanks Rabin.

Their part nos are as follows:

Injection ECU: Bosch 0 280 001 507 (Jetronic).

MAF Sensor: Bosch 0 280 213 006.

Attached below are the Injection ECU & MAF pics.

Ikenna.

[nick@nite]

Suxs that shipping is so $ I have everything for a ZN3J

my Bosch's Injection ecu are a 0280 001 506 and I have the ignition ecu 0 227 400 120

MAF is the same number

[Ikenna]

Suxs that shipping is so $ I have everything for a ZN3J

my Bosch's Injection ecu are a 0280 001 506 and I have the ignition ecu 0 227 400 120

MAF is the same number

Wow!! You really have everything. So unfortunate for me.

Meanwhile, my Ignition ECU part no also differs : 0 227 400 121. I wonder why the two ( Ignition and Injection) part nos last digits differs.

Ikenna.

[nick@nite]

Gotta be U.S Vs E.U. spec emissions

or later version

[Ikenna]

Today, in the afternoon, I went & bought used MAF.

[Ikenna]

Today, in the afternoon, I went & bought used MAF.

Sorry for not completing the earlier post. We had a blackout (Power failure).

Anyway, like I said, i bought a used MAF this afternoon. It came with Intake air tube and wiring connector. While installing it, i noticed that the wiring connector on the old one was changed (Cuts and Joins). I decided to check if the connection was properly done, only to find out that wire colours differ (wires that comes from the Injection ECU and wires on the connector). So, with the Injection wiring diagram, i traced the wires from the ECU wiring connector to the MAF connector and found out that out of 4 wires that goes to Injection ECU from MAP, two was wrongly connected. Number 7 wire on the ECU was connected to number two wire on the MAP wiring connector/plug, instead of number three of the MAP plug, as you can see on the diagram attached. I switched the wires, installed the newly purchased MAF and clanked the engine.It started but was terribly rough idling. It was as if the engine was choking of air or something. It wouldnt even accelerate when I tried. The whole car was just shaking terribly and thick black smoke started puffing out of the exhaust. It was as if none of the spark plugs was funtioning. I tried several times to accelerate but it was just getting worse until it stalled. Honestly, it scared me, because i was afraid something terrible must have happened to the engine. I started the car again and it was still doing the same: serious rough idling with thick horrible black smoke from the exhaust. When it was about to stall again, I quickly rushed and remove the MAF plug and it started idling well. Very weird! I checked the connection i did and it was absolutely correct, judging what the diagram is showing. I reverse the connection on the MAF wiring connector I did (connect it wrongly again), plug in the connector on the MAF again, started the engine and it started running well, though the black smoke was still there, but not as scary as when i did the correct connection, according to the diagram. It now run the same way as when MAF is unplug. Only that this time, when the engine is running and you unplug MAF, the idle speed will drop and you will notice that something helping the engine to run well has been unplugged. And when you plug back the MAF, the sound will increase suddenly, like a BUMP. Which shows that the MAF is alive, unlike the damaged one that wont show any difference in the sound when plugged or unplugged when engine is idling.

As far as am concerned, I dont want to believe anymore that the purchased MAF is faulty. Because this was what the former one was doing before it was damaged by the "Clown". Besides, am yet to read, see or hear that the MAF used by 505 has ever given anyone this kind of symptoms. Never even read where one complained of his/her 505 MAF been faulty. Proved me wrong if am wrong. I dont think now that the problem is with the MAF. I believe it could be wrong connection or ECU itself. The only way I could rule out bad wiring connection is by using fresh wires, cut and join the 4 wires that connects the MAF to Injection ECU. Whatever result i get from there, it would ...

The Injection ECU appears to want to run on its own without been connected to MAF. Because the conections i made on those wires were according to factory spec/diagram. For it not to work well when connected right, dont you think something is wrong with that ECU or another terrible connection somewhere wouldnt allow Inj ECU to function when well connected, but would prefer to run with wrong connection? ECU. Hmm! Not sure I can afford to repalce that now, if its faulty.

After spending so much to replace the MAF today, i felt so bad for not seein the result i was expecting. The whole thing is getting more complicated. I wanted to call that my relative that put me in this condition, to give him piece of mind, but i changed my mind later. After all, he would say he had asked to waite till he gets another to replace this one. I never bargained for this situation!

From all indication, something is making the Injectors to inject excess fuel into those chambers. Now the oil level has risen to scary level. Half of the liquid in that sump is definitely fuel. This is something i just drained and refilled the other day. Now it needs another drain and refil with oil. The headache is becoming too much/heavy for me. Besides, the car still hard start when the engine warms, even after putting a working MAF. The Amp module they replaced for me when the Clown damged mine could be the culprit. Meaning, its needs to be replaced too or try with another. Hmm!

Anyway, the Instrument cluster is on its way and will arrive tomorrow morning. I checked the connectors on the one in the car now and found out that they werent the V6 connectors, but the I4. Rabin said so. Well, since it wont help in solving the issue at hand (since the Inj/Igniton warning bulb wont function because of lack of connection), i will connect it whenever i have the chance. Am so sad that the Tachometer might not even work, since the one in the car now dosent work (probably disconnected). It makes it very difficult for me to tune the engine well while idling. I dont even know if the engine is high or low.

I will keep everyone updated with whatever i do next in that car.

Ikenna.

ZN3J EFI wiring diagram.pdf

[Ikenna]

I made a discovery today.

This morning, I ran a wiring connection, with fresh wires, from Injection ECU end to MAF. When I clanked the car, it started. For the first time since I have this car, it was idling so well that there was no atom (or whatever) of black smoke emitting from exhaust. I mean nothing. In fact, i could see steam forming on the exhaust opening, covering the black carbon on the exhaust opening pipe. Didnt know that this engine could idle so smoothly, no engine vibration. Then i tried to accelerate, hell was let loose. It started throwing out thick black smoke from the exhaust and stuttering, losing power, wouldnt even accelerate, as if it was cutting fuel, losing sparks or combustion chambers getting too much fuel they couldnt burn. But I when stop accelerating, it would idle perfectly again . I could feel all the spark plugs firing well, for this time with the car. As soon as the engine warms, i switched it off, tried to start it again and it started it hard starting thing again. I pulled out a plug lead from one of the spark plugs, put a plug in it, grounded it and clanked the engine. I could see a spark, but wouldnt know if it was enough to ignite a compressed air-fuel in the chambers. It looked like small spark to me. But since i donot know how a normal spark should look like, i coulndnt fault the Amplifier module yet. Though, with the hard starting, it would still start, only when you depress the throttle pedal to the floor until after a long clank.

I changed the connections: the no 3 wire to no 4 wire on the wiring connector of MAF. When done that, the engine would idle and rev(accelerate), but with black smoke both at idle and acceleration. Its as if MAF its disconnected. Swithed the connections again (correct connections) and tried to see if it was vaccuum leak that was making the engine to malfunction when trying to accelerate. I didnt see any leak. I checked the TPS settings and it was ok. The engine was just idling very fine, though a bit high, which i believe would be the tuning. I felt like leaving the engine idling for eternity, cos it was idling amazingly without any smoke, be it blue or black. Just that it wont accelerate, try it and the engine throws out black smoke from exhaust, stutters and dies. I reconnected the old wiring connections and it was doing the same thing( idling fine but woouldnt accelerate). Switched the wires wrongly and it started to rev, but with black smoke both in idling and acceleration. The black smoke smells strong odor of fuel that scrathes or pains the eyes as if its teargas. I just left it that way for now. It appears the Injection ECU dosent want to run the engine with MAF rightly connected.

Now, i have ruled out the wiring connections from Inj ECU to MAF. The connections is ok. The fault now is either the ECU or MAF. And maybe the Amp module too. But I doubt if its MAF because the person that did the conversion couldnt trace the problem, which was why he switched the connections on the MAF before,since the MAF and ECU wouldnt want to work together. Well, it could still be the MAF anyway. Or is it the Injectors? But the car would idle fine when not accelerating. I was thinking if truely Inectors are faulty, why choosing to spray well when at idle and spray wrongly while in acceletion? I wouldnt know if the hard starting thing is Amp module or still caused by excessive fuel thing.

Please, guys, am out of ideas. Help!

Ikenna.

[Bean]

I think it's the ECU. Something blew in it, and crossing the wires bypasses a control circuit and allows it to run, but it's not running right obviously.

Is there any chance you can take it to a rewire as is, correct the wiring, then have them try a used ECU? If the ECU isn't locally available, then that isn't an option - but I'm hopeful since you were able to get a MAF. Maybe even post your MAF and ECU numbers on Peugeot-L to see if anyone can reference them as the correct numbers for the PRV.

Have you also tested the O2 sensor at all? I don't think that would be the issue, but without any feedback from O2, the ECU will default to rich as well. I still think it's ECU, but with everything done so poorly - you need to check everything.

I also wanted to say how impressed I am that you tackled the MAF wiring to the ECU! Good job. Once you get confident enough to start doing things like this, narrowing down the issue will be much easier, and WAY cheaper. You're also building a valuable skill set that will keep you running Peugeots forever.

Rabin

[Bean]

It just occured to me that the car is running well when the throttle stop is pressed. As soon as it comes off the stop you said it runs crappy. Can you hold the microswitch at the TPS closed like it's closed, then rev the motor?

I'm not quite as confident of it just being the ECU now - so make sure the TPS and the thottle stop are working as they should.

Rabin

[Ikenna]

Rabin,

The car dosent have oxygen sensor. It wasnt installed when it was converted. I have checked the complete exhaust and its not there. Though, someone was telling me that even if the oxygen sensor is disconnected, it shouldnt cause the black smoke thing from the exhaust.

Ikenna.

[Bean]

Then it will definitely run rich. Can you find the wires for the 02 sensor?

You'll need to get that functioning for sure if you want the car to run properly. The ECU uses feedback from the O2 sensor to determine how much fuel to inject. Without it, it will default to a rich fuel map - ignoring all other parameters.

Rabin

[Ikenna]

Then it will definitely run rich. Can you find the wires for the 02 sensor?

You'll need to get that functioning for sure if you want the car to run properly. The ECU uses feedback from the O2 sensor to determine how much fuel to inject. Without it, it will default to a rich fuel map - ignoring all other parameters.

Rabin

Thats just the problem Rabin. The O2 sensors wires are not even in the engine bay. Besides, the conversion on the exhaust must have removed where sensor is to be mounted/installed. I have checked, didnt see any opening on the exhaust for sensor installation. In fact, i dont even know where it should be located.

Ikenna.

[Ikenna]

The instrument cluster arrived last Friday like I said it would. Unfortunately, its not the V6 one, rather the turbo cluster. Notwithstanding all my description to the seller, what it should look like, I got this instead. Just because he dosent know how to use a computer to get its picture i would have sent to him. Anyway, it has all the extras the V6 type has, just that the Tach wont match. I have installed it and its working(as you can see in the pics attached). But I may have to remove it since am not sure am keeping the car. The dishonest related car dealer gave me a serious assurance of getting another soon for me. He even adviced that I stop wasting money in fixing this one, after speaking with him last Friday. He was even saying I should sell the car right away, before it develops more problem. But i wont be a fool to sell this one when i havent seen another. I just have to waite and see what future says about that.

Ikenna.

[Ikenna]

Long time all.

Last week, I bypassed and ran the wiring connections from Injection & Ignition ECU to the TPS. The Excessive fuel and hard starting were still there.

3 days ago,I replaced the Ignition module with the 505 V6 part no., to see if it would stop the hard starting. The hard starting persisted.

This morning, I drove the car the car to the Peugeot auto parts sellers. I tried with 2 Injection ECU and 1 Ignition ECUm in good conditions, the two problems with the car persisted. It appears this car simply is not mearnt for me.

There, They showed me the donor car, 505 V6, of the ECU's. The mechanicals have all been removed and sold, I guess. Everyother thing is still intact: the interiors, wiring harness and body. I wanted to see if they would sell the complete wiring harness to me, but I was told they would like to sell the body with everything there on the car. I checked the body, its 505 V6 Automatique, though, the auto trans has been removed. The body has no rust, but not as good as mine, when compared. The former owner didnt take car of the car well. The Interior is not in great shape, when compared to mine. The easiest thing would have been to buy the complete body as it is now, and transfer of the mechanicals of mine to it or transfer the harness of the car to mine. But, how am I sure that the wiring harness is the cause of the car problems? At least, almost all the electrical components have replaced or tried with another (except the Injectors), but hell is still loose.

Am begining to give up. I really want this car to stay, but its becoming impossible. If care is not taken, the engine would knock. Fuel has diluted the oil so bad that running the engine with it could ruin it, seriously. I cant afford to be changing engine oil every week.

Simply put, if anyone sees 505 v6 5sp (Euro spec) on sale on any site, please attach the link here for me. Am seriously looking for another.

Ikenna.

[horhayj505]

Long time all.

Last week, I bypassed and ran the wiring connections from Injection & Ignition ECU to the TPS. The Excessive fuel and hard starting were still there.

3 days ago,I replaced the Ignition module with the 505 V6 part no., to see if it would stop the hard starting. The hard starting persisted.

This morning, I drove the car the car to the Peugeot auto parts sellers. I tried with 2 Injection ECU and 1 Ignition ECUm in good conditions, the two problems with the car persisted. It appears this car simply is not mearnt for me.

There, They showed me the donor car, 505 V6, of the ECU's. The mechanicals have all been removed and sold, I guess. Everyother thing is still intact: the interiors, wiring harness and body. I wanted to see if they would sell the complete wiring harness to me, but I was told they would like to sell the body with everything there on the car. I checked the body, its 505 V6 Automatique, though, the auto trans has been removed. The body has no rust, but not as good as mine, when compared. The former owner didnt take car of the car well. The Interior is not in great shape, when compared to mine. The easiest thing would have been to buy the complete body as it is now, and transfer of the mechanicals of mine to it or transfer the harness of the car to mine. But, how am I sure that the wiring harness is the cause of the car problems? At least, almost all the electrical components have replaced or tried with another (except the Injectors), but hell is still loose.

Am begining to give up. I really want this car to stay, but its becoming impossible. If care is not taken, the engine would knock. Fuel has diluted the oil so bad that running the engine with it could ruin it, seriously. I cant afford to be changing engine oil every week.

Simply put, if anyone sees 505 v6 5sp (Euro spec) on sale on any site, please attach the link here for me. Am seriously looking for another.

Ikenna.

ikenna it sounds to me ur car was a victim of first hand maintanence neglect it probably has tons of blowby past the piston rings

[Ikenna]

ikenna it sounds to me ur car was a victim of first hand maintanence neglect it probably has tons of blowby past the piston rings

Jorge,

Are you sure this could be the cause, because it consumes fuel like hell, which I believe where coming out of the exhaust as black smoke and the rest unburnt washes down the cylinders and dilutes engine oil in the sump.

Something is making the Injectors to be injecting excess fuel into Cylinders via Intake, I guess.

[Bean]

The easiest thing would have been to buy the complete body as it is now, and transfer of the mechanicals of mine to it or transfer the harness of the car to mine.

If your engine is still good (compression test and leak down test), then I would consider swapping the mechanicals into the other car. It's easy to do a 5-sp conversion on that car, and the rest of the things like interior and such is also easy to swap over. If panels are dented and such you can only really swap doors, hood (bonnet), trunk (boot), and the front fenders.

Swapping the wiring is also an option, but you would need to gut your dash and engine bay down to the chassis. Remove everything that has a wire on it! I would then systematically replace it with EVERYTHING from the donor car.

LOTS of work - but I would MUCH rather deal with either of those options then try and diagnose the butcher that did the swap on your car. This V6 parts car though would have to have NO cut wires, with all the ECU components and devices included. If it were me - I'd do the wiring/dash swap to save the good body - but you would still need the entire car there so that you could systematically remove and install it properly. Getting it all in a box would NOT be the way to go.

I doubt you have the facilities to tackle this however, and I certainly wouldn't trust another rewire with your experiences. The wiring you likely could do your self if you had the car on hand as you would take proper care when removing and installing into your car exactly as it was in the proper V6 car.

Good luck in your search - and hopefully you can at least get a refund from your relative.

Rabin

[Ikenna]

Thanks Rabin.

Actually, I blamed myself for not taking pictures of the car when I was checking it. I would have posted them here for you guys to see. But I will take the pics when next I go there. The car's body is not that bad. At least from the exterior, no sign of rust. It has the same colour of mine, Metallic, though the colour has faded. But the entire body is still ok. But not just as new as mine. The only problem i have with it is the sunroof. It appears to be leaking and had made quite a mess on the ceiling/roof cover. I wouldnt know if all the switches are still working.

I wasnt happy with the man that is selling the car because if he had informed me about the car before he removed and sold the mechanicals, I would have prevented him from removing certain things. I buy my parts from him and he knows what am going through with my car. I wouldnt mind to negotiate and buy the complete car, swapped the auto tranny and the engine with mine or to be sure no wire or wiring connector is cut out while removing the mechanicals, if am to buy the car without the mechanicals.

I have done this type of project before when I swapped my fathers 504 GL to 505 body. This can be time consuming, which I may not have the time this time around because of work. But that appears to be the only solution to fixing the issues with the car. Swapping the electricals/wiring from the parts car to mine would be ideal, like you suggested Rabin. But to do that, I would still have to buy the entire car, what is left of it.

Rabin, there is something else i have been thinking for the past 2 hrs. That my relative sounded very serious in purchasing another V6 for me, the last time we spoke. He even asked me to join in the search. That once I find one, he would take me to the car to confirm before him if thats what i want and he would pay. He even asked me to sale this one at once. That I shouldnt waite till he gets another before selling it. Well, I wont be that fool to sale the only one I have when I havent seen another. But the question now is how long will it take him and myself to find this rare car, 505 V6. It could be sooner than I expect or longer than even a year. That gets me to the next question.

How good is XN1 or XN1A (fuel carbureted) engine? How is the fuel economy compared to ZN3J? Is it strong enough to used for long distance drive frequently, which I know ZN3J is much good for? Will it be strong enough to power A/C if used on daily basis, even on long distance trips?

I have used/handled XN1 engine before (504 GL of my father). Its a very rugged engine, reliable and durable too. But I wouldnt know how if it would be able to serve the purpose i chose for V6. I intend to be travelling frequently using a private car, which was why i bought the V6, which i heard so much about how good it can be for that purpose. For the past two hrs, I was thinking of calling my relation to include 505 GTI with XN1 or XN1A in the search, since I dnt know how long it will take to get another V6, since GTI is very much available. Honestly, after driving and feeling the performance of ZN3J on the wheels, I swore I would never go back to XN1. Its nt just about the speed. Honestly, ZN3J is really a good unit. But I was thinking instead of waiting for eternity to get a V6, why not settle for XN1 (I4). But I know deeply in my heart, I wont be a happy man driving the I4. It will only serve the purpose of mobility, but wont give me the satisfaction i need in a car, a ride! One thing am sure of XN1 is that it lacks power. Rabin, you have a 504 with XN engine. How would you access it? Do you think if I settle for that and be travelling (long distance journeys) a lot with it, that it would reduce the engine lifespan or wears out quicker? Will using A/C frequently (since we have hot climate here) reduce the XN engine lifespan? Generally, I know 505 GTIs come with ZDJL (EFI) engines. But i have seen a lot of 505 GTI with XN1 engines. I dont like that ZJDL engine for one thing, the cam belt thing. I prefer engines with Cam chains, no matter how noisey they can be. I need honest opinions of you guys on this before I make this decision. Am yet to call my relation to ask him to also look for the GTI while looking for V6.

Ikenna.

[wabo505]

I dont like that ZJDL engine. I prefer engines with Cam chains, no matter how noisey they can be

Hallo Ikenna,

predjudice? I drive that ZDJL engine since 25 years and changed the belt three times. No problem at all

Walter

[andrethx]

as to whether the 4-cylinder 505s have sufficient power...you mention that you frequently drive long distances, what kind of driving is it? if you spend much of that time on the motorway, the power is less important. if you spend that time on back roads, starting and stopping, you would probably appreciate the power of the 6-cylinder engine more.

as for durability, however, i think a lot of it comes down to maintenance and how you intend to take care of the car. africa is a tough environment, to be sure -- it's hot, you've mentioned that the qualify of fuel available not always good and many of the pictures you have posted show unpaved roads (dusty). while the 505's later 4-cylinder engines may not have the cast-iron reputation of the xn motors, though, they are still very durable compared to many other engines especially when they are regularly maintained. so if you never plan to open the hood, you are probably better off with an xn motor. if you plan to change the oil, change the filters, check the belts, etc. at regular intervals (or find a good mechanic who'll do so), any peugeot engine should be fine, just get the car in the best condition you can find, until you can get the car you really want.

just my 2 cents.

andré

[Ikenna]

as to whether the 4-cylinder 505s have sufficient power...you mention that you frequently drive long distances, what kind of driving is it? if you spend much of that time on the motorway, the power is less important. if you spend that time on back roads, starting and stopping, you would probably appreciate the power of the 6-cylinder engine more.

as for durability, however, i think a lot of it comes down to maintenance and how you intend to take care of the car. africa is a tough environment, to be sure -- it's hot, you've mentioned that the qualify of fuel available not always good and many of the pictures you have posted show unpaved roads (dusty). while the 505's later 4-cylinder engines may not have the cast-iron reputation of the xn motors, though, they are still very durable compared to many other engines especially when they are regularly maintained. so if you never plan to open the hood, you are probably better off with an xn motor. if you plan to change the oil, change the filters, check the belts, etc. at regular intervals (or find a good mechanic who'll do so), any peugeot engine should be fine, just get the car in the best condition you can find, until you can get the car you really want.

just my 2 cents.

andré

Yesterday, Sunday, I drove to Church with the car, my crappy converted 505 V6 5sp), since I only drive the car once every week ( I only drive it to Sunday Mass and drive it home and wait for another Sunday). Since th fuel is diluting the sump, i have to minimise the usage, to prevent egine knock. Anyway, on driving home after the Mass (on a freeway-20mins hispeed drive), a brand new 406 overtook me, which i guess was speeding about 145k/h(90miles/h), judging by myown speed. Hmm! I sighed and continued on my low speed. But the way the drver of that 406 was behaving in front of me was like "Who dares my brand new 406". I was like "Is this a motorcycle that am driving?" For the Hell of it, I planted my foot a little bit on the pedal and WOW! The next was amazingly unexplainable! Few seconds, the 406 was far behind me Looking on the rearview mirror, I could see the 406 struggling to catch up with me, with all its might. It got to points where both of us had to brake, and the 406 would pass me. But as soon as the road is clear again, touching the pedal a little bit, my car would speed past the 406 as if it was stanstill/stationaly. Even when i brake and the car's speed drop to 60k/h (37m/h),once i press my foot alittle bit on the throttle pedal still on the 5th gear, the way the speedometer would rise from the 37miles/hour to 99miles/hour was amazingly than one would imaging, as if it was the gear 3. It so amazed me that the car could revs very high and push the car faster on the 5th gear. The engine sound at that speed was as if I havent even started accelerating. Of all the day I have owned this car, 505 V6 5sp, yesterday was the only day I got to know what i really have.The best thing that ever happened to 505 was PRV engine finding its way inside the hood!

Andre, you really dont need to tell me how good, reliable, rugged and durable XN1 motor is. All my life before now, I was using 504 GL (XN1) of my dad's as my daily driver. How do you think I became a die-hard fan for RWD Peugeots? Honestly, the should-be most reliable Peugeot engine for long distance in Nigerian, considering our weather is the XN1. Knowing how my dad used the car before I took over, i didnt need anyother proof to convince myself. Unfortunately, one need to consider the condition and nature of our high ways. How busy is your hiways in USA, if I may ask? Have you ever try to overtake a long line of 4 or 5 trucks/lorries on a hi way single lane, not freeway? This is what is obtainable in our hiways. All our hiways are single lanes. 80 percents of vehicles on our hiways are trucks or heavy duty vehicles, conveying goods from one state or part of the country to another. None of our hiways are straight: long bent corners. After following behind 4 or 5 trucks behind, dragging, and you still have 7 hours drive ahead of you to get to your destination, you just have to put your car head in the on-coming vehicle lane , overtake them with full acceleration and meet another queue to follow behind. A lot of lives have been lost on our hiways because of this. No matter how long you follow behind to get a better view to overtake, you are just killing your time, as powerful FAST ACCELLERATING vehicles would just put head , overtake the queue with seconds, leave you the dragging and low accellerating cars and continue their journey. I was a victim once. After following a lorry behind to get a clearer view, to be sure no car is coming forward, i put in to overtake, only for me to sight a big gully in front of me. By that time, i had already reached the middle of the lorry, couldnt brake again since I then sighted a car coming towards my front and with my quick calculation, I would be able to overtake the lorry and swerve back to our lane before I reached the gully and the on-coming vehicle. Unfortunaltly, I pressed the throttle (505 SR XN1) almost to the floor, the car was just dragging and it was very obvious that it wont pass the long lorry before the gully, i steered out of the lane to the side of oncoming vehicle road, entered mud with about 110k/h (75m/h). Only God knew what happened. If not for my experience in driving, if not because of the good roadling behaviour of 505, I would have been a history, not been alive now writing this, just because I was driving a less fast acceletrating car. Like I said, I dont know the conditions of the hiways overthere in your country, but ours are nightmares. One need to consider safety first one plying on our highways, before durability. Is it the bad conditions of the roads, potholes here and there,etc that we are talking about. A lot of things are been considerd when manufacturing a long distance vehicle, like the V6. The suspensions, special shock absorbers, etc., all are put in place to ensure the good handling and safety of the car and the driver in question while on hispeed shock absorbers, which normal I4 engined car lacks, except I4 turbos.

While I was kind of racing with the brand new 406 on Sunday, I realised that it wasnt just how fast the car would acceleratre, but the perfect handling of the car on that speed by itself.

Anyway, for me to do the conversion of the car back to I4 XN1, a lot of mechanicals would have to be replaced: the engine, the V6 gearbox, the V6 torque tube and propeller shaft, the V6 engine mount, the fuel tank (EFI), the radiator and its sitting, will all have to be replaced with XN1 type. The cost of buying and replacing this mechanicals mentioned above can actually buy another car. It would be like a project car. But how would I feel to spend almost the same amount of money i bought the car with to reconvert it to a lesser power engine. I would rather keep this one and get another car, pending when or what i decide to do with this one.

My plans now is to look for another car and keep this one, 505 v6. Since i wouldnt want to give up on PRV, i decided to go for another Peugeot with PRV engine, since getting another 505 V6 is becoming impossible, because of its scarcity. My research showed that 605 SV 3.0, both series one and series 2, have 12v PRV engine (ZPJ), almost exactly like the ZN3j, the 505 V6 engine. After discussing with owners of 605 V6 on Aussiefrogs forum and reading the comments of previous owners of the car in Carsurvey review, I realised that it is one of the best FWD car ever produced and lacks the shortcomings associated with FWD autos. The only FWD that drives like RWD and has benefits of FWD. And having the even-fire PRV engine also makes it desirable too. Though, been criticised by its poor electrics, but we all know Peugeot cars all have that virus ,poor electrics, as they get older. And is even very much available here than the 505 V6 i was searching for ages before i got the one i have. Fortunately, its very very cheap here, cos people are running away from it because of no one has the knowledge to fix it here. But after mastering the electrics of my 505 V6 wirings (ZN3J), with the help of wiring diagram, I strongly believe the 605 V6 electrics shouldnt be much of a problem to me, since an owner of series one 605 SV 3.0 in Australia has promised to scan and send me the manuals of the car,the owners & workshop manuals that contain wiring diagram and how to diagnose and repair the mechanicals and wirings. I have already gone into the search. I have told my relative to search and get me 605 instead. Well, if he decides to redeem his wrong deed to me by getting the cheaper 605 for me, fine, if he fails to, i would patiently save and get one on my own. I have already seen some, but yet to see one that i would point at and say, "Yes, thats my car!"

Ikenna.