Tama Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 Hello! I was asked to make a new topic about the engine modifications I've done to my 505 turbo. I'm sorry about my english because I dont know all the right words for every parts i've used.. I'll update the topic whenever I have time and I'll add some pictures aswell. I'm now running the engine @ 1,4 bar boost and its working very nice. No knocking or anything which could break the engine. I'm going to dyno asap so that we will see how much power this engine has. I hope that I would be able to get 300+ hp, but at this point I doubt it... The turbo might a bit too small but lets see.. Here is a short list about the engine modifications: - Volvo 2,1l Turbo (B21ET) 92,5mm Mahle pistons. (Pistons are lowered so that they come ~1mm over the block level at TDC - Block machined for those pistons - Lightened Saab 900 Turbo rods (Any saab with B or H engine (2L) from 75-> 90's, 99 and 900 model). Grinding the crankshaft to the right bearing size is needed - Grinded Dans cam + lash caps - Ported head - Head casket with separate "rings" from http://www.navalineasport.it/home_eg.htm They know N9T casket since I've sent one used casket there as a model. I've ordered several caskets from them.. to V-M as well - Garrett T03/4, comp. wheel 50mm, exh. 50mm, A/r .63 - Big cooler, custom made (about 50X40X8cm) - 3"/2,5" exhaus with one muffler - 465ml/min Bosch injectors - Lightened Flywheel - Eaton clutch set with 4 piece? sinter clutch - Vems Round Wideband lambda&EGT (EGT sensor not installed) - Megasquirt MSII (msq file can be sent if someone needs) - Ford wasted spark system (can be found from Sierra, Escort, Mondeo, Fiesta etc.) - Ford Sierra Cosworth fuel pressure regulator -Trottle position sensor changed (cant remember eather the car or the code. If needed I'll check) - 18-1 trigger wheel with Honeywell hall sensor - Ford Sierra Cosworth MAT sensor - 50mm dump valve - "Colder" spark plugs (Bosch heat rate 6) Those are the mods that quicly comes to my mind.. There are probably hundreds of smaller mods that are not listed but I'll try add them as well when they come to my mind... -Tama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 EXCELLENT! Thanks very much Tama... I especially am interested in the engine mods you've done. The Saab 900 connecting rods in particular. If they're that close - I'm hoping some lighweight forged aftermarket ones would be the treat. Big question though is if you used Peugeot rod bearings or Saab ones? From the rest of the specs I would think 300 HP is very doable. Any idea on what the compression ratio ended up being? VERY curious to see what kinds of numbers you see on the dyno. Also - I'm curious how much more is left in it with more tuning of the MSII... Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norcal505 Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 Good god, that thing is beastly. Also, that's quite nice of you to offer your MS programming, that could save someone *a lot* of headaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tama Posted August 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 EXCELLENT! Thanks very much Tama... I especially am interested in the engine mods you've done. The Saab 900 connecting rods in particular. If they're that close - I'm hoping some lighweight forged aftermarket ones would be the treat. Big question though is if you used Peugeot rod bearings or Saab ones? From the rest of the specs I would think 300 HP is very doable. Any idea on what the compression ratio ended up being? VERY curious to see what kinds of numbers you see on the dyno. Also - I'm curious how much more is left in it with more tuning of the MSII... Rabin Hello Rabin I used saab rod bearings. They fit to 505 crankshaft easily. and those rods fit straight to volvos pistons. I never calculated the exact compression ratio but I assume its about 8.1 -Tama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 Those saab con rods are 134mm and saab bearings are easily available and cheap. Set of new con.rods 80-120euros and those can take beating up to 500hp. V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted August 21, 2010 Report Share Posted August 21, 2010 Can either of you provide specifics on the particular Saab 900 Turbo engine the rods are from? I know a guy on the V70R forums that happens to be a Saab tuner / builder from back in the day. He said if I ever got specifics on the Saab bits he could likely help me out. Intially my thoughts were to offset grind the stock crank to a smaller journal, so that custom rods could be used from another car along with the bearings. That offset would also stroke the motor for even more displacement... That's HUGE money to do that, and to do it well - so this recipe is much more affordable. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted August 21, 2010 Report Share Posted August 21, 2010 Any saab with B or H engine (2L) from 75-> 90's, 99 and 900 models . Also NA engines have same conrods. V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick@nite Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 must not just think pistons, it's also about the rings.... Thats the main prob with the boost with these engines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d00zer Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 - Lightened Saab 900 Turbo rods (if I remember correct the lenght is 133mm or 134mm... Fits to 505 turbo crankshaft very easily) What modification has do be done to fit the rods bearing? Grinding the crankshaft? What size of the bearings did you use? Thanks for a good topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tama Posted August 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 - Lightened Saab 900 Turbo rods (if I remember correct the lenght is 133mm or 134mm... Fits to 505 turbo crankshaft very easily) What modification has do be done to fit the rods bearing? Grinding the crankshaft? What size of the bearings did you use? Thanks for a good topic! I cant remember the exact size of the bearings. My crankshaft was already grinded once before so I had to take some oversized bearings. There are no problems to fit Saab bearings to 505 crankshaft. Grinding the crankshaft is enough. Thanks for V-M about the more detailed information about those rods! -Tama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 must not just think pistons, it's also about the rings.... Thats the main prob with the boost with these engines Main problem is pistons, piston is allways broken first not rings. N9T piston is bad quality IMHO. I can show some pictures of pile of N9T pistons where edge between 1 and 2 ring is broken. Someting like 20 pistons I have trown to metal circulation and I still have pile of them at home. There is no that problem in Volvo pistons at all. V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tama Posted August 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Main problem is pistons, piston is allways broken first not rings. N9T piston is bad quality IMHO. I can show some pictures of pile of N9T pistons where edge between 1 and 2 ring is broken. Someting like 20 pistons I have trown to metal circulation and I still have pile of them at home. There is no that problem in Volvo pistons at all. V-M I've had problems with both piston rings and pistons... Those where the main reason for changing to Volvos pistons. -Tama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 Tama - do you have any detailed engine build pirtures? Also - If you want to have your own album in our gallery let me know and I'll set you up with one. It'd be nice to have all your pics in one for easy reference. If it's too big of a pain - I'd be happy to do it for you if you send them direct. (Or upload to my home server) Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tama Posted August 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 Tama - do you have any detailed engine build pirtures? Also - If you want to have your own album in our gallery let me know and I'll set you up with one. It'd be nice to have all your pics in one for easy reference. If it's too big of a pain - I'd be happy to do it for you if you send them direct. (Or upload to my home server) Rabin Hello Rabin, Creating an album sounds good! How do I send my photos to you? I could probably upload them to your server since I dont have any servers myself? I'm sorry to say that I dont have many detailed pictures from the newest engine. I'll check and send you whatever I have. I have plenty of pictures from the engine from past years but the setup has been different.. -Tama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick@nite Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Quote Here is a short list about the engine modifications: - Volvo 2,3l Turbo (B23ET) 92,5mm Mahle pistons. (Pistons are lowered so that they come ~1mm over the block level at TDC Want to know more about what you mean by 1mm over the block level @ TDC? Do you mean the pistons needed shaving and how much? Can't really tell in the pic if the pistons are concaved? Also I see V-M has used 95mm pistons, wondering what those are use in? I priced up the piston through my uncle that works @ the Volvo dealer, $300 for the whole 92.5MM piston kit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tama Posted September 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 Quote Here is a short list about the engine modifications: - Volvo 2,3l Turbo (B23ET) 92,5mm Mahle pistons. (Pistons are lowered so that they come ~1mm over the block level at TDC Want to know more about what you mean by 1mm over the block level @ TDC? Do you mean the pistons needed shaving and how much? Can't really tell in the pic if the pistons are concaved? Also I see V-M has used 95mm pistons, wondering what those are use in? I priced up the piston through my uncle that works @ the Volvo dealer, $300 for the whole 92.5MM piston kit... Sorry about the bad pictures. Pistons are concaved and I made spots for the valves as well so that they dont hit the piston. I ment that when the pistons are in their most upper position they come a bit (~1mm) over the block level. hmm.. cant tell it better.. The idea is to reduce the pressure from the head caskets down side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 Also I see V-M has used 95mm pistons, wondering what those are use in? I priced up the piston through my uncle that works @ the Volvo dealer, $300 for the whole 92.5MM piston kit... My was also volvo pistons 96mm from 2.3L B23ET (or B230ET I'm not sure) turbo engine. Those 92mm pistons are from 2.1L (B21et) turbo engine which is bit older volvo engines. V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 V-M - did you use Saab rods with the 96mm pistons in your build? If not - do you think that would have helped the decking issue you had? (I remember you had to deck the block a fair bit, and that caused issues wiht cam timing and such) I really like the idea of using the 96mm pistons, but I want to keep the deck height the same, and possibly even go with an offset ground stroker crank with custom rods... Offset crank and rods would be really $$$ however, so if the Saab rods can work with the Volvo pistons and retain the block's deck height that might be a real nice combination. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick@nite Posted September 16, 2010 Report Share Posted September 16, 2010 I was going to ask the same thing, becasue I saw a pic that he lighten the rods and pins, was wondering how they held up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted September 16, 2010 Report Share Posted September 16, 2010 Combinations: My Engine Volvo 96mm pistons and N9T conrods, Tama's Volvo 92mm pistons and Saab conrods. Volvo 96mm pistons and Saab conrods dont work togeter, rods are way too short. I'll try to put some pics for getting that bit clearer. V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted September 16, 2010 Report Share Posted September 16, 2010 Thanks for clarifying that - I was making the assumption that the 2.1 and 2.3 Volvo's had the same pin height, and so the Saab rods might work with the 2.3 pistons as well. V-M - do you think 96mm pistons are worth pursuing if custom rods are used? Or do you think 96 is just too big a bore for this engine to handle? It looks to work great from your pictures, and if custom rods can be used to get the proper rod length - that would make for quite the monster motor. Hardest part for me is finding an engine guy that even wants to attempt such a build... Most are too scared to even discuss it, let alone take a look. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted September 24, 2010 Report Share Posted September 24, 2010 Thanks for clarifying that - I was making the assumption that the 2.1 and 2.3 Volvo's had the same pin height, and so the Saab rods might work with the 2.3 pistons as well. V-M - do you think 96mm pistons are worth pursuing if custom rods are used? Or do you think 96 is just too big a bore for this engine to handle? It looks to work great from your pictures, and if custom rods can be used to get the proper rod length - that would make for quite the monster motor. Hardest part for me is finding an engine guy that even wants to attempt such a build... Most are too scared to even discuss it, let alone take a look. Rabin My current opinion is at 96mm is too big. I have now worked with that engine 2years and way too many openings for engine. From hp point of view it has no big difference and head flow with smaller piston is easier to handle. So I would keep it 92-94mm max. With custom piston it could not have problem, hard to know. But new engine will be same set as tama have. V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tama Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 New rims... The car has been working quite well now for more than two years with 1,5 bar boost so apparently I've done something right when building and tuning the engine.. The only problem is that I have a oil leak in the énd of the crank shaft or at the gearbox resulting to make the clutch slip with the 4th and 5th gears. The slipping appears only once in a while which makes it weard... No I tried "thicker" engine oil and it seems to work bit better.. -Tama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 very nice! the gold goes very well with the color scheme of your car. these rims are not 140 pcd, are they? do you use adapters or have you modified your hubs? tama, it gets very cold in your part of the world, doesn't it? do you have a separate set of wheels and tires for winter, or do you not drive the car at that time of year? it's very exciting to see such a well-loved, heavily modified 505! andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohms Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 damn, that is just too sweet. well done tama! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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