Jim in Seattle Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 I have recently started tuning a project of mine and have had no luck getting it to hold its valve clearances. The bottom end has been blueprinted, top end gone through with new valves both sides and a low mileage factory cam. I have a T3/T4 40 trim turbo on it, a Greddy BOV, 804 injectors, adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator set to 36psi, and have moved the AFM spring six clicks looser. The O2 sensor is .6 at idle and .8 at full load. I have gobs of horsepower. Powered out of a turn in second and broke my 225/50/15's loose going uphill. It feels like it's putting out somewhere between 220 and 250 hp at 3000 rpm. It loves second and third between 3 and 5K. Only running about 12 lbs of boost. I've had to adjust the valves three times in as many weeks. They sound great for a couple days. Purrs like a kitten. Then I put my foot into it a couple times and viola, valve rattle reappears. I also have a bit of blue smoke at startup that wasn't there before. I did a leak down test and there was only 2 to 4 % difference on each cylinder. Very tight. And it idles and runs perfectly. Current theory: The seats are walking down. Or there is massive carbon buildup. But the plugs are perfect. I'm running WR7DC's and WR6DS's. I passed emissions testing a week ago. No problem. Is it possible that I am bending the rocker shafts or the rockers themselves? Am I mushrooming the tops of the valves? Would some of those tapet covers solve my problem? Somebody who has done this before, please help... The valves are usually 4 to 5 thousandths too loose. I set both sides at a tight .08 with the car stone cold. I am suspicious of the valvetrain in this car. Especially the rockers. I fear I'll have to spend some real change on a different rocker setup. Help! This on and off with the valve cover is killing me. Anybody got a supplier for N9T valve cover gaskets? Also I need the sway bar drop links off a V6 505. I used heim joints without any rubber and they are fine for summer autocrossing, but the rest of the year it's a bit too much. -Jim in Seattle 1986 505 Turbo, Silver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Hi Jim and welcome to the forum! I'm pretty sure tha valve clearances are supposed to be set when the engine is warm, and the exhaust should have greater clearance, 0.30mm or 0.011" maybe that has something to do with it? Other than that I don't have a clue. Sounds odd that 12lbs of boost would put so much strain on the valvetrain with a standard cam, since that's almost std boost for the N9TEA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 It think you'd be better off setting them warm so that there's no expansion of the metals when you start loading the engine up which is going to heat up the head a lot. I'm not too sure on the specs though as I'm at work - but I'm sure someone will chime in with the correct procedure. Maybe it is adjusted cold but the specs are off? I doubt there's any damage happening though - loose is good. It's when it's too tight that you have to worry! As for your build - it sounds great. Please post pictures! We have a gallery set up on here and I'd be happy to set you up with your own album if you got a lot of pictures of the build up. The drop links you need should fit of of any 505 Turbo. If you can't find any let me know as I think I should have some spares - although I usually just save the bar itself when I strip a car... Still great to hear of another modded 505 on this side of the pond though Jim - and I'm quite sure it's nothing as serious as what you are concerned with. What are the plans for the future? Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Seattle Posted December 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 It think you'd be better off setting them warm so that there's no expansion of the metals when you start loading the engine up which is going to heat up the head a lot. I'm not too sure on the specs though as I'm at work - but I'm sure someone will chime in with the correct procedure. Maybe it is adjusted cold but the specs are off? I doubt there's any damage happening though - loose is good. It's when it's too tight that you have to worry! As for your build - it sounds great. Please post pictures! We have a gallery set up on here and I'd be happy to set you up with your own album if you got a lot of pictures of the build up. The drop links you need should fit of of any 505 Turbo. If you can't find any let me know as I think I should have some spares - although I usually just save the bar itself when I strip a car... Still great to hear of another modded 505 on this side of the pond though Jim - and I'm quite sure it's nothing as serious as what you are concerned with. What are the plans for the future? Rabin Thanks for the welcome Rabin. It's been a really fun ride. Just wish I could get the valve lash to stabilize. I'm going to set them cold once again. Then measure the clearance when the engine is good and hot and see the difference. Then I'll take those adjuster screws off and examine those little feet on the bottoms. Can you back those all the way out without taking the rockers off? I hope so. Been wondering why they say to set the intake at 12 and the exhaust at 8. Usually it's the opposite, with exhaust a tad more clearance. Can anyone explain? I think it's possible my machinist left some kind of poor finish on the top of the valve when he put them back in. I'll do a thorough exam tonight. -Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9TE Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Sounds like you have a decent game plan, Jim. You might also want to scribe the adjuster screws to make sure they're not backing off. I'm no expert on those screws, but if the scribe marks still line up after a few hundred miles, you can eliminate that variable in your quest to nail down the problem. Where in Seattle are you? Who did you get to do the bottom end work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Exhaust is 0.30mm and intake is 0.20mm. Do u have custom cam or original? If u have custom cam u need slash caps top of valve heads, cause hit angle to rocker is too big. V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Seattle Posted December 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 There we go. I knew there was some little piece of information that was missing. After the complete rebuild I put a Danielson cam in and messed around with trying to get it to run for a few weeks. Couldn't get it dialed in. So I put the original back in. I didn't use slash caps when the Danielson was in. Do you think I buggered the valve guides or messed up the tops of the valves or the little feet at the bottom of the adjusters? All three seem likely now. Where do you get these slash caps and why didn't the fellow who sold me the cam mention it? Is the difference in the geometry such that the little feet don't work anymore at the Danielson angles? Thanks for giving me a lead on this. Autosport/Johnny's machine downtown did the bottom end work, Hill machine in Ballard did the top end. -Jim in Seattle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Was the cam reground to Danielson spec? If it was an actual Danielson cam - it should have been OK as they were made from new forged stock blanks if I remember correctly. Hopefully you can isolate the cause, but with the spec VM gave hopefully it won't be necessary. Should be easy enough to eliminate the valves and rockers though once you're in there - sure hope all is OK though. Out of curiousity - what about the Danielson cam was hard to dial in? Symptoms? Sure would be nice to have that in there if possible. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 If that's original dani and not grinded from std. Then caps are not needed. But there should be absolutely no difference of engine running fex. iddle with dani or std cam. Only difference is at it breaths better over 4000rpm. If there problems, two things comes in my mind. Assembly failure (wrong timing) or wrong grind angles. Surely this does not directly solve that adjustment prob... one thing is at that rocker holder "pipe" can be worn. And then adjustment can change when running. V-M P.S -> slash caps -> http://www.aircooled.fi/shop/index.php?productID=342 These are us made, so should be easy to find there ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Seattle Posted December 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 The cam came from Joe Grubb and was a regrind to Danielson spec cam. The problem I have with it is that it runs way too rich at idle. Even with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator taking the pressure down to 30 or even 27 psi, I ran rich. What have been other people's experience with these 'regrind' cams? I just converted my front brakes over to Volvo 240 calipers. That's an improvement I'd recommend to everyone. Lot's of bang for about 150 dollars. And you can buy front brake pads at NAPA now. They don't have the little sensor wires in them, but otherwise, they are great. -Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Odd that the cam would cause it to run rich. Only thing that comes to mind is the vacuum it would be generating at idle. If it was really low, then that might cause excessive fuel to get fired in. Did it clear up right away with no other changes once you got the OEM cam in? Regrind confirms you likely needed lash caps, so hopefully you can get it apart and check the rockers, valve stems, and the rocker mounts for wear. If all that checks out, redoing the valve lash with V-M's specs should have you working well. Would be very curious about the dani cam you have though. I personally am not sure if I want the high RPM breathing as I like the car to build boost quick and have lots of power down low as well. Course - maybe a nice turbo and the dani cam would still be OK. I'm also very curious about the Volvo Brakes! Did you use the newer style 1 line set ups? I was leaning that way until reading that they're quite heavy - so then started looking at different options. One was to fit RX-7 calipers with an adapter - 4 piston alloy calipers that 240 Volvo guys like to upgrade to. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Would be very curious about the dani cam you have though. I personally am not sure if I want the high RPM breathing as I like the car to build boost quick and have lots of power down low as well. Course - maybe a nice turbo and the dani cam would still be OK. Rabin ? As I said with dani its like std cam under 4000rpm. It only breaths better over 4000rpm than std. Or did I understand u wrongly? V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 ? As I said with dani its like std cam under 4000rpm. It only breaths better over 4000rpm than std. Or did I understand u wrongly? V-M Slight mis-understanding. I was curious if Jim's Dani cam was OK - like you mentioned there would have to be something wrong with it. Not sure what could possibly be wrong with a cam that would cause a rich idle - and thus the speculation that it ran with very low vacuum which caused more fuel then necessary to be injected. Maybe it just wasn't actuating the valves correctly due to the reduced base circle of the regrind... Just bouncing ideas around. I agree though - if the cam is fine (which it should be) - there must have been another issue that was causing the rich condition. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 i think it's a bad grind. the dani stage I cam shouldn't make that much of a difference at idle, like VM said. i'd also like to hear more about the front brakes. what year & model volvo did you get them off of? i work with a volvo nut, so he might be able to hook me up. also, don't the 240 calipers require 2 brake lines? how did you get around that? did you have to have brakets made or were they a direct bolt on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Jim can correct me - but I believe the 88+ 240 Turbo's had single line calipers, and the caliper definitely bolts on perfectly. The only downside I've read is that they are absolute boat anchors for weight - so not great for reducing unsprung weight. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norcal505 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 hey, Jim we'd love to see some pics your bay and the car itself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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