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wadehilts

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Everything posted by wadehilts

  1. How did the rebuild go? And what turbo did you end up going with? Is it still stock?
  2. Jens that looks like an awesome project. I bet that bi-turbo will spool lightning fast! Update on my project. I drove the car all the way to Santa Cruz last summer. It was 110 degrees as I was climbing the hills north of SF. For extended periods I was pulling 15 psi of boost. Temp gauge was sitting right before the red, a little hairball but the engine performed beautifully the entire trip from Portland to Santa Cruz and back - aside from a burst coolant hose that I fixed on the side of the road on the way home! Anyways I consider the built to be both reliable and powerful. Going to have to pull the engine to replace the rear main seal (I'm an idiot for not doing this originally haha). I'll do timing chain and piston rings at the point too. I plan to swap out the exhaust back pressure gauge for a simple oil pressure gauge now that everything's verified. EBP gauge is buzzy and annoying under heavy boost, I'd rather know the oil pressure at this point anyways. Also going to see if I can use a 505 Series I tachometer in the 604 cluster while I'm at it. Then I could get a read on how the boost varies with RPM and report back some more data on the dynamics of the turbo. Wade
  3. Did about 105 miles of driving yesterday, with 4 passengers including myself. Mixed driving mostly in the 40 to 70 mph range on the highway and thru some small towns. Last 10 miles were in the city. The exhaust backpressure was consistently 1:1 or even slightly trailing the boost. EGTs climbed to 900F after a 30 second full boost run uphill at about 75 mph. In 5th gear, I'd be able to achieve max 22 psi of boost under full fuel load at about 70-75 mph on the speedo. Tuning the EBC / wastegate allowed my backpressure to remain 1:1 at full boost - as opposed to when the EBC kept the wastegate shut until fueling limited boost the backpressure went much higher at full boost. A good example of why using a wastegate is a good idea even if fueling can limit boost. Thru this process I realized my speedo is fast, maybe 10% too fast. Could be from having 15" rims instead of 14", not sure what mods previous owner did. Whatever I've done seems to have really helped the fuel economy. I burned about 2.82 gallons of diesel. My odometer read 115 miles but I suspect it was 10% shy of this in actuality. Assuming a 10% fast speedo, that means I still got 36.7 miles per gallon! And this is mixed driving with 3 other people in the car! I'm not too tempted to try to make modifications for more low-end spool, but my EGTs and boost to backpressure ratio definitely suggest I could attempt a smaller turbo or A/R. I would expect more low end boost would lead to even better mileage, at least in the lower rpm ranges, but this may be a moot point for highway mileage as the rpms are fairly elevated at this point anyways.
  4. That could be interesting. I think I have the issue of not really knowing what I should expect and not having an RPM signal. I feel like I should drive the car for a few months and get the feel of it. I'm wary of overtinkering when it may not be necessary. 22.5 psi of boost is really quite a different animal than 7-8 psi on the gas turbos. The engine certainly performs well and is excellent on the hills and highway. I may have been overanalyzing things at first, I'll give it some time to observe. That said, I would definitely conclude a slightly smaller turbo design like a 13G would not be problematic, it may have less high end power but certainly not within any danger zone or very poor performance in the higher RPMs zone.
  5. Also it looks like the 13T has a similar flow as a 15G or 15C... source: http://stealth316.com/2-turboguide.htm A 13G is rated around 360 CFM whereas the 13T was 428... surprisingly large difference there You might be on to something with the 13G. Interesting comparisons here: I also see Kinugawa sells a 13G turbo cartridge. Not cheap but they have it with a billet: http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbochraupgradekitmitsubishi6g72t3000gttd04-19t-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-1.aspx I also notice their compressor and turbine dimensions are different than what's show in the table above. They're actually nearly identical to the 13T's stated dimensions in the table, so it might actually be very close to what I have already...
  6. Good ideas Rabin! And yeah, I'm pretty on the fence still. The top end power is amazing and the car drives great, I just have that perfectionist urge to tinker with it until it's EXACTLY what I want. Your bench build brought me really close to what I want already. And pulling the intake/exhaust manifold is do-able with the engine in-situ so swapping in a different turbo wouldn't be too difficult. You make some good points about dropping in a stock 13G. I also was wondering what a 12T with a 6 cm^2 housing would be like. Might be a good time to revisit those turbo flow maps, this time with a reference to real-world performance! Wade
  7. After some more driving, and observation of my gauges. I do think that my turbo is a bit on the oversized end. At least for my preference, I do really like the feel of easy quick low end spool. I'm going to keep driving it for a while before doing anything. But if a straight flange 5 cm^2 housing exists I might be tempted to try it. My back pressures actually less than my boost pressure until about 10 PSI and then it full boost it's maybe 1.2 to 1 at most. And my EGT isn't even close to 1,000 under full load extended periods. Another odd thing I noticed is that on the kinogawa turbo website they have a 13T turbo listed and they offer the 11 plus 0 blade compressor wheel as better for high end power and the 6 plus 6 wheel better for low end. Which is contrary to the general theoretical premise of compressor wheels. So I think I'm pretty safe as far as room for exploration of a lower end design goes. I don't think I'd get to the point of having a way to choked turbo just by dropping the housing size one unit.
  8. Hey Rabin, Performance wise I'd say it pulls noticeably harder than a 505 turbo wagon. But the spool up characteristics are certainly different. I notice on 505 wagons, you can easily reach full boost at around 2000 RPM under full load just by opening the throttle all the way, but the higher rpm boost is rather dull. My build won't spool much until you get over (I'd guess) 2000 rpm. So if I'm cruising at lower rpm and floor it, the turbo won't build boost very quickly. Once I get north of 2500 rpm or so, the turbo spools very quickly. Especially coming out of 2nd gear you'll really feel yourself getting pushed back on the seat. By the time I'm hitting full boost of 23 psi or so (haven't pushed it beyond that yet, but I will probably eventually), the engine seems to probably be above 3200 rpm. The turbo is kind of in the sweet spot for higher rpm power, which is probably easiest on the drivetrain - as it misses the peak torque. Cruising at 75 mph on the flat highway the car sits happily around 5-8 psi of boost in 5th gear and will spool up nicely when passing. I did an extended steep hill climb the other day, at about 40-50mph and 10-15psi of boost consistent. EGTs climbed to just shy of 900 but never went above. I'd conclude that there really won't be any issues there after that rigorous run. I'm kind of curious if a smaller turbo would be more instantly available, or perhaps a smaller exhaust housing. I used a 6 cm^2 housing instead of the 7 cm^2 housing that came with the 13T, which was a good move. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the build and don't think I'll be tearing it down anytime soon to tinker with it. The more I drive it the more used to the dynamics I've gotten. And it definitely pulls quite nicely when you get up in the revs and spool up that boost
  9. Another update: The project seems to be a great success. With a 2.5" exhaust my backpressure is nearly 1:1. The 13T spools quickly. With my stiffer spring, billet compressor and EBC, I can easily get to 22.5 psi of boost, haven't tried pushing it further than this but probably won't go too much before fuel limits things. I timed the pump by ear and feel. My initial timing point I used the factory 'drop the valve' method, to get 0.89 mm BTDC on piston number 4 with a pump lift of 0.4 mm. That initial timing point gave me light black smoke steadily under boost. I retarded the pump about 1/8" from that reference point and the smoke is gone with about the same power. Seems pretty acceptable to me. Boost kicks in nice, doesn't boost a ton at super low rpms, and I don't have a tach on the 604 so it's hard to gauge - but when I'm above 2000 rpm and loaded up the boost needle flys to max boost. Adding some snubbers tomorrow as my mechanical boost and EBC gauges are buzzy. Its about 30F here, so cooling system is not being challenged at all, we'll see if we hit some limits come summertime. Under steady 20psi of boost on the freeway, I never saw EGTs get above 650F. Not sure what I should be expecting there but it seems EGTs are far from the danger zone. Big thanks to @Bean for all the notes he provided that informed much of this build.
  10. Waiting on the dual port wastegate to come in. The internal vs external thing shouldn't make a difference, both would be plumbed the same and they are both essentially the same components, one is just integrated in the turbocharger assembly and the other is in the exhaust. But both are experiencing the same backpressure. Using the plumbing in the diagram above, my lower bound for boost will be ~11psi, since that's what I observe in my current build with zero wastegate actuation. The exhaust backpressure blows the WG open at around 15psi, causing boost to fall to around 11. If I install a looser spring than what I have spring the lower bound might drop and I'll be able to hold the wastegate shut for longer. It seems that the wastegate crack pressure is the pressure that the controller will not turn on before, so you can use that to keep the controller off until your close to your target. Dual port just lets you use a SLIGHTLY looser spring I suppose. So I really didn't get as much out of going to dual port as I thought I was going to, but it should be a slight benefit. EDIT: I decided to just use a stiffer spring and not bother with a dual port wastegate. I don't want to rely on my exhaust backpressure to be the force ultimately pushing my wastegate open, I'd rather just use what I have and tune the AEM accordingly. I started with a 0.5 Bar spring that opened at around 12 to 15 psi, I think I will go to a 1.0 bar spring and tune accordingly! I can go even higher if that gives me issues but I think it will be fine. I'll also use a bit more preload. Should allow me to comfortable venture even a little north of 20psi
  11. Mine is the truboost. Yeah I had just kind of assumed based on what I knew about wastegates that it would be a closed loop control system where solenoid position is your control output and the feedback state is the manifold pressure. Of course then you would have to probably implement some sort of PID control tune, and that probably would be too much of a headache to the average user so they just went for the standard open loop system where you bump up duty cycle gradually until you hit your target boost. I'm a little bit confused how the wastegate crack pressure parameter affects the controller. I read the manual though and I think I understand basically how it all works. But I was very confused for a while because I kept trying to figure out how it was closed loop!
  12. @BeanWith piston pump head thing, I was able to confirm my research by using the VE pump part numbers. All the XD3T VE part numbers in the manuals (and on my 3T engine, which came on an auto) had a 9mm pump head part number. All the XD2S pumps have a 10mm pump head part number. I may advance the pump a tooth, but also I have a feeling I'm a bit too advanced at the cylinder block anyways. My initial timing point put me about 1/8-3/16" back from interfering with the block, but even at that point the engine clatters a lot at idle and lets a puff of black smoke out before boost. Advancing it to the block just made it more clattery, and power seemed about the same... perhaps a little less on the lower end. I would also need to remove the timing chain cover and advance that gear a tooth. The VE pump gear is keyed so it can't be installed any other way. So that's not a tempting job! When I ran the car at it's initial timing point the car puffed a bit of black smoke and pulled BEAUTIFULLY until the wastegate was actuated at 10psi. I didn't feel any fade in power across RPMs, but I wasn't driving the piss out of it yet. When I tried to really drive it hard, my wastegate was slipping open. But as you could see in the video on FB, it spools really nicely and quickly until the wastegate pops. So it was hard to gauge what was causing the power to drop, RPM or boost loss. I'm hoping it was boost loss from WG popping open. Giles provided no notes whatsoever on his rebuild.. Dual port install seems pretty straightforward. I found this diagram for how to plumb it online. Since I know my current spring pops open at 15 psi, if the solenoid is fully delivering pressure to the top of the WG, the WG will hold until a higher psi if the solenoid is pulsed at a lower duty cycle. There are other plumbing options folks use if the back pressure is excessively high.
  13. Hey @Bean, yes I failed to do the proper research on wastegate stuff. Now it all makes sense! Luckily, the aftermarket WG actuator I got has an identical geometry version with 2 ports. I purchased that I will swap it in and re-use my custom bracket. I figured if I spent all the money on an EBC, I might as well make the most of it and use the lightest spring possible. Giles didn't mention anything about fueling limits, other than that he spec'd my pump to support 20 PSI of boost. I suppose I could just jam the wastegate shut haha, but I feel like that's not a great idea. Plus I like to be able to electronically adjust my boost and choose an exact profile that drives nicely. I had a 2.5" exhaust installed with a magnaflow muffler and the backpressure on the turbo is basically ideal, baaaarely breaching 1:1 with turbo psi. Really glad you suggested I install the EBP gauge as it helps rule out things like turbo intake hose collapse. On another note, it's encouraging to hear on the Peugeot of North America Facebook page that Scotty Benier has done a similar mod before, going up to 26 psi of boost with a jammed wastegate. He was using the stock turbo, front mount air to air intercooler, and just screwed the fuel screw in all the way, avoiding super high RPMs as he encountered lots of smoke there. He also used an XD2S pump instead of 3T probably for the bigger piston head. He sheared the BA7/5 output shaft on his 505 wagon so he had to swap in a BA10/5 - not a simple drop in! But it seems like his U-Joint held up fine and everything else in the drivetrain too. I'm sure the 604's drivetrain is stouter than the 505 wagon's, so this is encouraging news. If everything in my build goes as planned, I will probably be putting out torque and power more efficiently with the newer turbo, EBC and custom IP tune.
  14. Update! I've gotten everything wired up, installed and the engine driving. Had a few issues/notes so far: The AEM boost controller gauge failed on me. The gauge reads normally and initially worked but when I took it out for day 2 of testing after retorquing the head and stuff, it no longer sends a PWM signal to the solenoid. I tested the solenoid, gauge MAP sensor and the wiring continuity to the solenoid and all were good. If I pinch off the boost hose to the solenoid I can get boosts up to 15 psi, wheres with it hooked up I can't get above 3. I'm sure I'm using the AEM truboost correctly as it worked at one point and then stopped. It seems like using the loosest wastegate spring in my kit did not do me any favors, as the wastegate appears to be flying open at 15 psi. I will probably need to install a stiffer spring and retry. With wastegate blocked off, I climb to 15 psi and then suddenly boost drops to 11 psi and won't recover. I have the pump advanced to the point where it hits the block. I'm getting good sound, and a little puff of black smoke upon boost starting. It seems like I'm close but frustrating that I can't advance more without changing mounting holes or something. Exhaust backpressure seems to just trail the boost pressure, close to 1:1 ratio. Car pulls and drives nicely otherwise. Here are some pictures and a video. Video is of me doing a hill climb full fuel in 2nd gear (after my shift), you can see the boost, back pressure and EGTs. EGTs don't go above 600, and you can see the boost kick down when the wastegate flies open. Hard to say for sure but it seems the 13T turbo is on the bigger side for this build, spool time isn't super fast. Would welcome people's thoughts. Wade Edit: in the install, I realized that the AEM TruBoost controller is not closed loop! So it doesn't provide a more linear boost building than a mechanical boost controller. It just bleeds air to the actuator at a certain PWM specified by the user. If I had just installed a 20psi spring in my boost control actuator to begin with I wouldn't have had this issue. Edit 2: I suppose if the loosest spring held against the backpressure the Open Loop EBC would have improved the speed at which boost was built since the selected PWM duty cycle would have resulted in a steeper ramp towards target boost due to higher backpressures and a looser spring. Reading online, I see that some people go by the 2:1 rule of thumb: don't use a wastegate spring that is less than half of your target boost. Some say they've done it and been fine others not. I'll probably swap in a 12psi or greater spring and give it some good pre-load. PXL_20220217_010102437.mp4
  15. Hmmm, I've never had the bottom end of an Indenor apart but the potential that the main bearings are bigger than they are marked is a possibility.. Could you verify the size by measuring? I don't know what the OEM specs are but perhaps they can be found in some shop manuals. Exciting news, I dropped the engine and IC in and so far everything fits! Even with the A/C in there and everything.
  16. I will be using an electronic boost controller as well
  17. Another update, today I fabricated the support bracket for the wastegate actuator. I had an aftermarket one that I'm going to use EBC on. Here is what I came up with, I'm pretty happy with it. I also plan to fabricate and weld on a little sheet metal heat shield that will go over it. As you can see it's pretty close to the exhaust. But I've also used header wrap on the exhaust so hopefully temps wont be too intense.
  18. Well its been a rough week, I was rear-ended and my 88 505 N9TE wagon in excellent condition was totaled Good news is I had agreed value insurance on it for $6k, but that will be a hard one to replace. In other news, I have a XD3T progress update! I did a super sloppy mock-up of intercooler plumbing today, with the rebuilt head back on and the manifolds re-installed Here are some pictures of my work. I'm obviously going to be cutting things down a bit and dialing in the fitment. Clearance in the engine bay is going to be tight, especially on the firewall end. But I'm hopeful I'll be able to make things work, maybe be readjusting the location of the de-gassing tank. I also included a picture of the engine bay when I got the car for reference.
  19. No Giles didn't mention anything about that. What is safety / race wire? and which fasteners are you seeing?
  20. Yes I have the pump! Got it back in September after 3 months.
  21. I just got another 2-notch style gasket as the one that I took off the engine. The engine only had 45k miles on it, so I assume it was the original HG. Probably should have checked to be double sure but I think I'll be OK.
  22. Alright y'all little update time! Got the cylinder head back from the machine shop. They were able to retrofit valve seals which was a bonus. Tapped out the threads on the block to clean them out and then greased and installed new bolts. The whole bolt kit change thing turned out to be quite baffling to me. The French manual states that on older cylinder heads without a V stamping, one should use the newer bolt kit - which basically eliminates the shortest bolts and replaces them with the medium length bolts. So I got the appropriate kit for that and, not surprisingly, the medium length bolts bottomed out before seating on the washer. Fortunately I had an older kit with the short bolts handy and was able to use that. But it was one of those things that made my eye twitch a bit. It's also strange because there is only one XD3T part number for the cylinder head and the block, and I don't understand how longer bolts would be feasible without machining out the block more or having a different head casting. I can't fathom why using the shorter bolts would be problematic so I'm choosing to proceed with the assumption there was an error in the manual. I'd post pictures but it really isn't anything y'all haven't seen before. Once I set the valves, re-install manifolds, water pump, clutch and pilot bushing I'll be ready to dry fit things in the engine bay and map out an exact intake plumbing.
  23. Hey @LDV_Arthur, have you seen this? https://www.serie04.com/gb/404-bas-moteur-diesel/49117-two-braids-hat-diesel-crankshaft.html As far as updates go for me, I'm having the head cleaned up at the machine shop. In my quest for head gaskets and head bolts I discovered a couple things: In 1987, Peugeot updated the head bolt set to eliminate the shortest length bolts and replace them with the medium length bolts. So in the latest kit of head bolts, you should have 2 different lengths of bolt - not 3. I was able to source this updated set of head bolts that I will be using. I got a proper XD3T head gasket that looks like the one @LDV_Arthur got. The other one that @luizsantanashowed was for an XD2S. It probably would have worked but the notch around the corner indicated XD3T was also probably put there for a reason. So I'm kind of stalled now until the shop gets back to me about the cylinder head..
  24. After reading this anecdote about an XD2S, I got a bit worried about head/gasket issues. It was from the forum post in 2012: (text copied in italics below) Well I know the XD engines can make some power. A long time ago I was tinkering with my old '82 when I worked at Sunset Coachmen. I turned my boost up to ~16psi and adjusted the max fuel delivery screw on the IP. I went a little overboard at first as I created quite a plume of black smoke, but either way the car really did feel much faster. The soft rear suspension really squatted... ahh good ol semi-trailing arms The head had already developed a small crack by that time, and doing that one acceleration run pressurized the cooling system quite a bit as evidenced by the high coolant temperature and burping from the header tank. As you'd imagine, I returned the car to stock once I returned to the shop. If I were to tune an XD again, I'd definitely make sure the head and head gasket were in tip top shape as that seems to be the weak link even when running stock. The bottom end doesn't worry me though; Forged parts plus the XD2S and XD3T have oil squirters, and the XD3T goes one step further with small oil galleries under the piston crowns to help distribute the heat load. Barring head/gasket issues, I'd wager you could get a shit ton of power from an XD3T--probably more HP/displacement than the IDI VW guys can get reliably anyway. I tend to agree with you @Bean that the 22 head bolts on the engine are probably not the weak point. Much more likely cooling system pressure was caused by a cracked head or weak head gasket. If @Javel is correct about the notching system, it appears that the head gasket that @luizsantana shared is for an XD2S as it does not have that additional notch around the corner. Not sure what the practical difference is and if manufacturing techniques varying from company to company are more important. EDIT: I checked ARP's website and they don't offer M11 stud kits, so it would require more modifications to the design to go up to M12 and use ARP studs. I could probably find fasteners elsewhere but I'm definitely less encouraged to do so now.
  25. Hey all, I took the head off today, and I figured I might as well get it it cleaned up, have the machine shop skim it if necessary and replace the valve seals. The head gasket appears to be a 2-notch Reinz gasket, the third notch around the corner is to indicate XD3T vs XD2S (thanks @Javel for that info!). @luizsantana where did you find your head gasket? I see many head gaskets on eBay by different manufacturers, but most of them don't show images that are clear enough - so I can't tell if they have more metal between the cylinders. My OEM gasket almost has as much metal in it as your payen-curty head gasket, but it is missing a little bit between the 2 middle cylinders. If you (or anyone else) have advice on where to get the best quality head gasket let me know! EDIT: I found the gasket that @luizsantana used! https://www.ebay.com/itm/194191423066 (Payen BG160) it also appears payen BP890 would work as well.. that may be an even newer design. It appears Payen BP890 corresponds to peugeot 0209.C3 and Payen BG160 corresponds to 0209.C2. I think I'm also going to look into getting some ARP studs to swap in for the head bolts. Studs have better clamping ability than bolts since they do not twist the main shaft of the fastener.
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